Pulse Oximeters are racist?

[johnofgwent]

If the oximeters are less accurate for people with darker skin, I can't think there was any deliberate racism involved.

Having spent several days hooked up to one, as part of the treatment and monitoring when Long COVID caused a reappearance of atrial fibrillation, it's not the figure that is shown that matters it's if it takes a sudden plunge ..... 

Which makes these portable ones even less worthwhile 

[HDQQ]

Yes, it has. In fact, I was searching around the forum as I thought Patman had mentioned it before.

If the oximeters are less accurate for people with darker skin, I can't think there was any deliberate racism involved. But if the problem is known, it should be rectified.

[Barry]

That puzzles me as well as the "story" has been floating around for months.

Yes, it has. In fact, I was searching around the forum as I thought Patman had mentioned it before.

[papasmurf]

Which makes it quite astounding that Javid ,his predecessor and the NHS have not been made aware or maybe decided it wasn't worth mentioning until now . 

That puzzles me as well as the "story" has been floating around for months.

[Streetwalker]

The USA medical bodies have been aware of the anomaly in the oximeters  since 2020 and reported in February  when they gave out advice on their use . 
They dont give out exact readings (for anyone ) and are only used as an estimate of oxygen levels .


 FDA: Pulse oximeters may not work as well on people of color (thedenverchannel.com)


Which makes it quite astounding that Javid ,his predecessor and the NHS have not been made aware or maybe decided it wasn't worth mentioning until now .  

[papasmurf]

If there were any justification for the suspicion that melanin screws with this measurement, surely to god it would have been obvious forty years ago when they ran rekka and me ragged on side by side treadmills at the same time ....

Personally I have a feeling any differences would need a full DNA profile of those on whom the Pulse Oximeters do not work properly.
On another forum someone who had fallen badly foul of long Covid had pulse oximeter readings which in theory would have put them close to death. Blood gas analysis using their blood told a different story.

[johnofgwent]

The issue is discussed in summary in the abstract of this research paper.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/135045339591880P

The issue at hand (pun intended) is whether melanin in large measure mucks with the measurement of the difference between the haemoglobin absorbtion spectra for oxygenated and deoxygenated blood. I can't seem to get the graphs out separately but if you have ten minutes to waste you can see what I am talking about roughly half way down this article

https://derangedphysiology.com/main/cicm-primary-exam/required-reading/respiratory-system/Chapter%20121/absorption-spectroscopy-haemoglobin-species

I find this intriguing; it harks back to my student days when for the sheer hell of it I spent a week or so in the company of a delightfully pneumatic in the brave new world sense of the word young lady named rekka who to put it bluntly was as black as the ace of spades and a group of other "volunteers" all of whom seemed to share my strange shifted haemoglobin curve. Up at Loughborough Uni they put us and others through hell on a treadmill and wired us to all sorts and stick needles into us at far too regular intervals for my liking.

They basically came to the conclusion that most of the volunteers they experimented with including us two from Cardiff Uni had a delightful quirk whereby we would be the last to die of oxygen starvation and were we russian citizens instead of british ones we woud have been separated from our siblings and parenets at primary school age and turned into olympic athletes because biochemically we had the power to run Cram and Coe ragged, and will have that power until the day we die.... and a bloody good job too as I made goofd use of it many times not least during my spell of long covid....

But here's the thing.

The group being studied at loughborough were a range of colours from viking blonde and pink to blacker than Michael jackson when he was black, yet there was absolutely **** all variation between blood oximetry measured using a rather weightier device the the thing I have now in my jacket pocket, and the pinpricks and worse they extracted real blood from

If there were any justification for the suspicion that melanin screws with this measurement, surely to god it would have been obvious forty years ago when they ran rekka and me ragged on side by side treadmills at the same time ....

[papasmurf]

I have to admit to this news item is  puzzling me.  I have had my own Pulse Oximeter for years. (I am according to Ancestral DNA testing about as white as is possible.)
Ten years ago when undergoing a medical procedure in hospital, their Pulse Oximeter just would not work on me.
When I had cataract surgery a couple of years ago there was no problem with their Pulse Oximeter.
I am wondering if the problem is not the race of the patient but the age of the equipment.
(My own Pulse Oximeter readings are the same as other methods used to check.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59363544

Covid: Sajid Javid orders review of medical device racial bias

Published47 minutes ago

A review into whether medical devices are equally effective regardless of the patient's ethnicity has been ordered by Health Secretary Sajid Javid.
Research suggests oximeters, which are clipped to a person's finger, can overstate the level of oxygen in the blood of people from ethnic minorities.

Ministers want to know whether bias could have prevented patients receiving appropriate Covid treatment.
Mr Javid said any bias was "totally unacceptable".