Christmas?

[Baron von Lotsov]

This brings me to my issue with "Christmas" cards.



Christmas tree - fake

Father Christmas - fake

Seasonal Greetings - fake

Snow - fake

Cottage - fake

Reindeer - fake

Fairies - fake



Christmas presents - genuine

Gold - genuine

Frankincense - genuine

Myrrh - genuine

baby in a manger - genuine

wise kings on camels - genuine

Stables - genuine

Shepherds - genuine

Census - genuine

Stars - genuine



So how many Christmas cards were for sale in Blighty?

[aboutt]

Both Christmas and New Year in that edition are misunderstood holidays and actually.. have nothing in common with the Bible or Jesus. In the Bible there is no concrete data pointing the birth of Jesus, neither there is prescription to celebrate it. According to the details describing the event, most scholars agree that it wasn't during the winter. Actually if i should be more accurate.. there is no prescription to celebrate anyone's birthday in the Bible. New Year on the other hand is nonsense to be few days after the begining of the most dark, cold and unhappy time of the year because.. nothing "new" happens at that period. When we add to that the fact Julius Ceaser and Octavian Augustus renamed their own months with extra days and the calender is pretty messed up.. We end up here.



I don't really know are you people celebrating Christmas with your families the same way we do if you are protestant or chatholic. Because here in Eastern Europe the predominant religion is orhodox and i guess there are some differences due to the pope/patriarch rivalry and the age-old desire to divide us into groups and stimulate one against another on the basis of fake differences and customs. However, we despite the presents, christmas trees and euphoria, usually sit around the table which is full with food that we can't actually consume and start eating, drinking and talking to each other inside the family to the late evening. We eat from some 5-7-9(odd number) meals without meat, and tear from homemade bread with "good luck papers" inside it which should describe our destiny for the next 12 months, . All this is happening with solid quantity of alcohol and of course, wine. Most of this practices are 100% pagan of course and have nothing to do with the real, pure, religion. So lets sum it:



- the concrete data of the birth of Jesus is unknown for us

- we are trying to eat more than what our stomaches can take and wasting food; meanwhile some poor people starving outside

- we are overdinking on what should be one of the "most" sacred holidays

- christmas trees are 100% pagan custom and pollute the environment

- Santa Claus is 100% pagan character and ridiculous attempt for propaganda from USA and Coca Cola on the back of the real religion

- christmas hats and christmas toys are usless most time of the year and pollute the environment because are made of synthetic and cheap materials



The ONLY real thing in that christmas holiday is the dinner with your closest people and the bread(without lucky-papers..) and the few sips of wine. The dinner with bread and wine is actually the secret dinner which Jesus held with his apostles which actually is the jewish holiday pasch and has nothing to do with birthday. Well people.. that is what we are celebrating in the last days of December.





Yet i find some good things in christmas..



Positive effects:

+ most people decide to be "good" for the holidays and to make good deeds

+ people around the world go home and spend time with their families

+ kids are happy



I think we should be good not only on christmas or easter, but more days in the year and to try obedience to God's commandments and it will be the best for us and our souls. Have a nice evening.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Yep, the Rolling Stones are utterly paradoxical. I mean back in the day, like the infamous Hyde Park scene it was more like war with the establishment and they were like the revolutionaries. Now you see them in front of like half a million or some stupid number and are as you say, like gods. The thing is their music was basic blues with an attitude. People discovered the stupider the tune the wider appeal it has, and they are cashing in just as the Beatles had done.



Actually in Manchester many years ago there was this pub that had a blues night and one or two of the blues bands we saw were like pure genius and they could have stood the Stones up as simpletons in the musical sense, but as the law goes, those people only have a niche appeal. For me it was those bands where you really understood what the blues was about, and without hearing the real thing I would have formed a pretty negative view.



Our town has done a really dumb thing though. It has promoted local talent because it helps councillors to get elected. Think about how that is likely to pan out in a small town. Well really and truly it has done the precise opposite, because the local talent does not have competition. It has become self-referential (looks good to each other but not to the competition they shield from). The bluesman was a traveller though.

[johnofgwent]

Well yes, 30 quid would be for me a band that I have a lot of respect for and there are not many of those about. The trouble I find these days is virtually everything entertainment-wise is looking back in time. They dredge them up around here, and they are geriatrics now.



Indeed thinking about bands i have really enjoyed, it was for the main reason that they were not copying the trend but setting it. Jazz was popular at the time because it broke new ground and that made it exciting. What we lack is music which is doing now what those forms of music were doing in the past.



In doing long searches for something both new and original I have found virtually nothing from this country. There are other countries which have a contemporary music offering, but they rarely play here, and if they do then it means I have to travel to either London or somewhere like Manchester, and add it all up and it gets to be silly money. I might well save my cash on watching local crap and do a  Ryan Air stint. I hear it is possible to get all the way over to some other European capital for 30 quid. I bet the drinks are cheaper too!

I was thinking back about five years now, tobwhen Jools Holland and friends were a headline act at Brecon Jazz.



I'd never seen him live and parted with thirty five quid. It was well worth it. Several thousand in the audience and yet he made it feel like you were part of a group coming back to his place for a singalong around the piano ...



And his guests were quite good too.



By comparison my youngest paid three times that for tickets at the NEC for some bunch called 30 seconds to Mars... who ??



One thing I have found is musicians from my younger days who are getting on a bit, are very much divided into those who can still belt it out, and those who are past it.



And it does surprise me which of those categories certain people fall into.



Apart from Keith Richards. He was already a fixture in the garden of eden when god started three planting there...

[Baron von Lotsov]

Ah



Yes, I can well see how that is just taking the piss.



In various clubs and other venues within 30 to 45 minutes of my home I can hear excellent (imo) blues and jazz - because that's my thing - by handing over ten to fifteen quid and the beer etc is at club  not pub, prices.



I'd consider paying £30 per head for a band I know on new years eve. Or other occasion... because I know the real costs. Like 'look mate, ask a plumber what he wants to work on your central heating forvthree hours new years eve, multiply that by six and all 6bof us will rock.up and entertain your crowd for half that"



But much beyond that is getting stupid.

Well yes, 30 quid would be for me a band that I have a lot of respect for and there are not many of those about. The trouble I find these days is virtually everything entertainment-wise is looking back in time. They dredge them up around here, and they are geriatrics now.



Indeed thinking about bands i have really enjoyed, it was for the main reason that they were not copying the trend but setting it. Jazz was popular at the time because it broke new ground and that made it exciting. What we lack is music which is doing now what those forms of music were doing in the past.



In doing long searches for something both new and original I have found virtually nothing from this country. There are other countries which have a contemporary music offering, but they rarely play here, and if they do then it means I have to travel to either London or somewhere like Manchester, and add it all up and it gets to be silly money. I might well save my cash on watching local crap and do a  Ryan Air stint. I hear it is possible to get all the way over to some other European capital for 30 quid. I bet the drinks are cheaper too!

[johnofgwent]

I'm in no doubt your local publican provides you with a service that you are happy with and the place has a reputation, so that's fair enough, but in doing a bit of research up and down the country to see what is on offer, I see massive entrance fees. I would not fuss over ten quid, but when it becomes 30- 50 - 70 quid and the entertainment provided is nothing special or quite often really naff, then like we all feel from time to time, it just isn't worth it. Over the years I have seen entrance fees increase, sometimes many times what they were, and the quality provided deteriorate. Regulations are one reason. Each regulation, you the punter has to pay for. But there is something else which I detect as well. It's known as a captive market. It's like if you are the only refreshment's store at a railway station you can change the earth for a cup of tea. People pay the ransom, but whilst they drink their 5 quid cup of tea they are going to feel ripped, hence it defeats the object of it if what you are buying is entertainment to make you happy.



Unfortunately there is too much of this these days. In the old days i believe the French made a distinction between the restaurant which charges you before the meal and the one that does so afterwards. You know the latter type is going to be better food. If the proprietor has to trust the punter rather than the other way around then he is going to make it good. Note virtually all entertainment involves booking. That's the one thing that has changed in this country. The bastards are now fining you the price of the ticket for not booking early enough. All these tricks are anti-competitive. I suspect they get taught to be anti-competitive at university business courses. It seems like it anyway. However they shoot themselves in the foot, because they are not just competing against other venues, but  other ways one can spend one's money to be entertained, hence the statistic is a 40% drop in the total market. We have two closed pups in our town. One has been closed for about ten years, and is a large one as well.

Ah



Yes, I can well see how that is just taking the piss.



In various clubs and other venues within 30 to 45 minutes of my home I can hear excellent (imo) blues and jazz - because that's my thing - by handing over ten to fifteen quid and the beer etc is at club  not pub, prices.



I'd consider paying £30 per head for a band I know on new years eve. Or other occasion... because I know the real costs. Like 'look mate, ask a plumber what he wants to work on your central heating forvthree hours new years eve, multiply that by six and all 6bof us will rock.up and entertain your crowd for half that"



But much beyond that is getting stupid.

[Baron von Lotsov]

I'm not even sure your reply actually has any significance or relevance to the scenario I was talking about.



The pub I frequent most has walls older than the american declaration of independence and can't seat more than fifty four people. Yes we can ram the place with hundreds in the summer when the beer garden provides an outdoor overflow but you wont be doing that in freezing cold new year rain and hail



So there HAS to be a limit.



The question is how to do that.



As I pointed out, mine host chooses to charge ten quid, of which my choice of beer reduces that 'fee' to seven quid and the various free shots that come round, plus the free midnight bubbly and the buffet more than covers what I paid, probably twice over at full retail.



But New year isnt like that, at least not there. New year is an occasion for the regulars to go a little bit nuts. And yes my bar bill will be impressive...



If you hand out free tickets to control numbers, it's a fair bet loads of people will ask for one, and then go elsewhere or stay in.



The issues you raise are hardly relevant to my case because the occasion, the beer and yes the food (on the regular menu) already fill the place to the rafters.

I'm in no doubt your local publican provides you with a service that you are happy with and the place has a reputation, so that's fair enough, but in doing a bit of research up and down the country to see what is on offer, I see massive entrance fees. I would not fuss over ten quid, but when it becomes 30- 50 - 70 quid and the entertainment provided is nothing special or quite often really naff, then like we all feel from time to time, it just isn't worth it. Over the years I have seen entrance fees increase, sometimes many times what they were, and the quality provided deteriorate. Regulations are one reason. Each regulation, you the punter has to pay for. But there is something else which I detect as well. It's known as a captive market. It's like if you are the only refreshment's store at a railway station you can change the earth for a cup of tea. People pay the ransom, but whilst they drink their 5 quid cup of tea they are going to feel ripped, hence it defeats the object of it if what you are buying is entertainment to make you happy.



Unfortunately there is too much of this these days. In the old days i believe the French made a distinction between the restaurant which charges you before the meal and the one that does so afterwards. You know the latter type is going to be better food. If the proprietor has to trust the punter rather than the other way around then he is going to make it good. Note virtually all entertainment involves booking. That's the one thing that has changed in this country. The bastards are now fining you the price of the ticket for not booking early enough. All these tricks are anti-competitive. I suspect they get taught to be anti-competitive at university business courses. It seems like it anyway. However they shoot themselves in the foot, because they are not just competing against other venues, but  other ways one can spend one's money to be entertained, hence the statistic is a 40% drop in the total market. We have two closed pups in our town. One has been closed for about ten years, and is a large one as well.

[johnofgwent]

Ah but straight away you can see what they are doing. Rather than give the buyer the freedom, they lump it all in together and sell it as a "deal". They have it all upside down. The way it should work is that their food should be so enticing that it pulls the crowd in off the street and it is upto the proprietor how many is full. That would be down to experience, since each place is different. I noticed in Spain they had these clubs that were so popular that the clubs would jam people in like sardines, but of course if you do that then the punter will eventually drop you.  It's greed and miking it too hard. I think real competition would be that if you don't like one place too much you finish your drink and then switch, but our country is now in the grips of communism so you're screwed if you find the food is not how you imagined it, or even that it is just too busy. We live in a nanny state, and that state considers the population too stupid to decide if a place is too full. It's the same with so many things.



Oh the thought just occurred to me.



Michelin stars:

1 = worth stopping

2 = worth a detour

3 = worth a separate journey



One could phone in a French accent and ask if they are worth a separate journey!



In fact worth a separate journey and having the confidence to pay before the meal!

I'm not even sure your reply actually has any significance or relevance to the scenario I was talking about.



The pub I frequent most has walls older than the american declaration of independence and can't seat more than fifty four people. Yes we can ram the place with hundreds in the summer when the beer garden provides an outdoor overflow but you wont be doing that in freezing cold new year rain and hail



So there HAS to be a limit.



The question is how to do that.



As I pointed out, mine host chooses to charge ten quid, of which my choice of beer reduces that 'fee' to seven quid and the various free shots that come round, plus the free midnight bubbly and the buffet more than covers what I paid, probably twice over at full retail.



But New year isnt like that, at least not there. New year is an occasion for the regulars to go a little bit nuts. And yes my bar bill will be impressive...



If you hand out free tickets to control numbers, it's a fair bet loads of people will ask for one, and then go elsewhere or stay in.



The issues you raise are hardly relevant to my case because the occasion, the beer and yes the food (on the regular menu) already fill the place to the rafters.

[Baron von Lotsov]

ACTUALLY



There are limits set by the fire brigade, because, well, we have safety regulations. Which means you have two choices.  Fights with doormen, or ticketed only entry.



The hostelry in which i have celebrated the past ten new years opens to the public until calling time at 7:30pm and physically shutting the doors at 8pm, whereupon it opens up again at 8:15 for ticket holders only. They've had notices up since Halloween / Bonfire Night and they do it every year so anyone who drinks once a month in there has had ample time to take note.



The ticket price includes a drink and a hot and cold buffet and they most definitely DON'T make a profit on the deal.



I'm sure other places have a different business model and that's why I probably wouldn't want to spend new year there.

Ah but straight away you can see what they are doing. Rather than give the buyer the freedom, they lump it all in together and sell it as a "deal". They have it all upside down. The way it should work is that their food should be so enticing that it pulls the crowd in off the street and it is upto the proprietor how many is full. That would be down to experience, since each place is different. I noticed in Spain they had these clubs that were so popular that the clubs would jam people in like sardines, but of course if you do that then the punter will eventually drop you.  It's greed and miking it too hard. I think real competition would be that if you don't like one place too much you finish your drink and then switch, but our country is now in the grips of communism so you're screwed if you find the food is not how you imagined it, or even that it is just too busy. We live in a nanny state, and that state considers the population too stupid to decide if a place is too full. It's the same with so many things.



Oh the thought just occurred to me.



Michelin stars:

1 = worth stopping

2 = worth a detour

3 = worth a separate journey



One could phone in a French accent and ask if they are worth a separate journey!



In fact worth a separate journey and having the confidence to pay before the meal!

[johnofgwent]

It looks like the places around here are starting to take the piss with tickets. It's like so much if you book early, then it is more money the later you book, and it has got to the point that the entertainment is so crap that it's hit or miss whether it is worth turning up for free. I strongly disagree with this. If you are going to have a community celebration you want to welcome everyone, and in my experience the good events are where its cheap enough to mean there is a good crowd. However on New year's Eve it seems everyone goes no matter how much they are ripped and it sells out.

ACTUALLY



There are limits set by the fire brigade, because, well, we have safety regulations. Which means you have two choices.  Fights with doormen, or ticketed only entry.



The hostelry in which i have celebrated the past ten new years opens to the public until calling time at 7:30pm and physically shutting the doors at 8pm, whereupon it opens up again at 8:15 for ticket holders only. They've had notices up since Halloween / Bonfire Night and they do it every year so anyone who drinks once a month in there has had ample time to take note.



The ticket price includes a drink and a hot and cold buffet and they most definitely DON'T make a profit on the deal.



I'm sure other places have a different business model and that's why I probably wouldn't want to spend new year there.

[Baron von Lotsov]

I do agree that it has become a bit OTT. Our family has set quite strict limits this year on presents and money spent as well as restricting packaging/wrapping etc. I believe that Christ was born in the Spring in fact but as you say tradition puts the celebration into the Winter. Faith and religion goes back to the very beginning according to the records available and the diversity that has occurred has created a rivalry possibly born of the Adversary, but again that is all foretold.

I agree too that it would so nice if everyone was kinder to each other every day. I love Christmas, but I expect you would guess that.

A chap I was listening to on the radio on Christmas morning explained it very well. He explained the significance of those that God informed to pass the message and good news on. He said there were the shepherds and the three wise men, and what that means is that since shepherds at the time were the lowest rung on the social ladder and the three wise men were to top intellectuals of the day, like they have been given that gift and prospered because of God making it so, it follows that the entire range from top to bottom is included. If you listened to the BBC though, you would think Christmas is about war. Well it is about war and crime according to their schedule, and the commercial channels think it is about flogging furniture.



Now the thing is that if the establishment were Christian then they would support Christmas, but we know they take the diametric opposite view. The subtext is Satanic, as it opposes goodness and replaces it with evil, and war is the ultimate expression of evil. If though one were to take the view that the faith is away with the fairies, then just why is it that it is actively opposed? Like in Roman times, they did not laugh at it, but saw it as a direct threat to their authority, which was in essence a state built on top of its military. The ones with the swords ruled in Rome, the emperor was a puppet.



So those who preach saving money on giving someone a card or a present are actively trying to break up the most important thing we celebrate in the world. The communist regimes of the Soviet Union likewise banned it for almost 70 years. Anyway, the one explaining about the wise men was saying it's all about messages of truth. Our government is afraid of the truth.

[Baron von Lotsov]

It looks like the places around here are starting to take the piss with tickets. It's like so much if you book early, then it is more money the later you book, and it has got to the point that the entertainment is so crap that it's hit or miss whether it is worth turning up for free. I strongly disagree with this. If you are going to have a community celebration you want to welcome everyone, and in my experience the good events are where its cheap enough to mean there is a good crowd. However on New year's Eve it seems everyone goes no matter how much they are ripped and it sells out.

[johnofgwent]

ANYWAY, back to the thread opener...



yesterday I went to the curry house where we've been customer for years and years.



The guys are shut on christmas day, and will be cooking Christmas dinner for their mum and the rest of the family.



See, they nick the best bits of our christmas traditions too ...



They're open at 5:30pm Boxing Day as usual (and on more than one occasion in the past we've gone there on Boxing Day night...)

[johnofgwent]

:hattip

Excellent post, John.

I only really know about it as a result of saving the freezing hypothermic arses of a couple of norwegian bloody idiots.



Back in 1990 I was part of a team at Hughes Aircraft that put the old SOS signal on the marine channel out of business, by putting up several satellites that conversed with a piece of ground based hardware we put together, whose business end was slightly bigger than a pint beer jug. Although the PC to run it was .. BIG ...



A rather enterprising salesman for this system which was to provide data comms worldwide at 9600 baud (!) realised a bunch of nutters were actually going north of the arctic circle and asked them to take one of our prototype units with them, free of charge, because the onboard sensor systems would provide us with utterly priceless data on cold weather performance....



Of course the divot never told **ME** this.



To cut a long story short the stupid sods fell down an ice crevasse.



And while the Indiana Jones version of the story has them pulling the pin on our device and lobbing it grenade like up to the top of the ice, I rather suspect the reality is the people they sensibly left at their base realised there was a problem, ran to the land rover or whatever and flicked a switch.



Either way, back at Mission Control Milton Keynes I fired up the test rig at a little after 8am in the last week before Christmas and was rewarded with a wall of sound from the klaxons that Phil Spector would have cheered and every one of the rack units flashing their red alarm light bar like the klingons were decloaking off the starboard bow, Jim.



After a SERIOUS bout of "What the ***k" I realised the system was receiving a satellite distress signal and after some serious puzzlement at the extreme northern latitude of the LORAN (an early GPS) readings, and an assurance from every one of the sodding jokers in the pack of hardware engineers that they were NOT pissing about, honest, we called the coastguard and said "guys, I may be wasting your time BUT I think there's a bunch of people in deep shit on the north coast of greenland........"



They took some persuading



But they did eventually get a plane to check it out.



I don't know who was more surprised, US at the thing working or them at being rescued after using it.



A few months later they came to say thank you bringing two of the biggest bottles of Moet I have ever seen in my life



It was during their chat with us about where they were that I worked out we should not have even picked up the signal, had they tried to summon us from those latitudes a week earlier or a week later they would have failed.



Probably the most useful thing any system I ever worked on ever did.

[Borchester]

This is why you need more educated people to run churches. Churches of late are more like the nanny state. It's selective reading of the bible. I'm reliably informed that in Romans there is a bit that explains to the reader how drinking and being merry is a godly thing to do. That's what a good Christian is advised to do, e.g. throw a party, invite your mates around, or whatever. Of course we've always lived by this code, but I think it is one of those things that might have come from the bible millennia ago, then it became tradition and now the holier than thou wish to outlaw all fun.

Ecclesiastes 10:19



A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.