On a personal level

[cromwell]

Hang on while I shoot myself in the foot.

And why would that be,if you imply I've ever said vaccination should be forced you quote the post.

I can wait because I've never said it so I expect it will take you forever.

[Sheepy]

Yes they are,you are saying a resident doesn't have the right to say "I don't want you to look after me you're not vaccinated" if you ignore them that is abusing their rights.......it's not hard to understand.

Hang on while I shoot myself in the foot.

[cromwell]

No need to reiterate, I understood, and I thought I explained quite well.  (I don't have to answer all your questions.)  A care worker is protected by human rights, because you are trying to make them do something.  A resident is not protected, because no one is making them do something or abusing them.

Yes they are,you are saying a resident doesn't have the right to say "I don't want you to look after me you're not vaccinated" if you ignore them that is abusing their rights.......it's not hard to understand.

[Scott777]

Thats not what the Lancet paper says .

''These findings underscore the importance of continuing to prioritise improving covid 19 vaccination rates ,including hard to reach communities .Effectiveness against infection is high soon after full vaccination  ect , ect ''

What part of if you haven't got it you can't pass it on don't you understand ?

But you still have got it.  'Effective' does not mean you don't have it.

"SAR was not significantly higher in unvaccinated (38%, 95% CI 24–53) than fully vaccinated (25%, 18–33) household contacts."

p5/6:
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S1473-3099%2821%2900648-4

"People inoculated against Covid-19 are just as likely to spread the delta variant of the virus to contacts in their household as those who haven't had shots, according to new research."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-28/getting-vaccinated-doesn-t-stop-people-from-spreading-delta

[Streetwalker]

Yes, it's very interesting, but vaccine 'effectiveness' is not the same as whether it stops you passing on the illness.  Yes, it may reduce illness, no it does not reduce it spreading.

Thats not what the Lancet paper says . 

''These findings underscore the importance of continuing to prioritise improving covid 19 vaccination rates ,including hard to reach communities .Effectiveness against infection is high soon after full vaccination  ect , ect ''

What part of if you haven't got it you cant pass it on don't you understand ?

[Scott777]

What really bothers me is the assumption that anyone who feels fit and is young is unlikely to suffer. That is disproved too many times to just be taken for granted 

No it certainly isn't disproved.  If you think it is, where is the evidence?

[papasmurf]

Well, I've absolutely no idea if these findings got reported anywhere. Nobody even told me.

The problem is anti-vaxxers are using isolated instances to support their crack-pot cause.
(I caught measles twice but that was decades apart.)

[johnofgwent]

My question relates to number of proven cases, as in data. (There are all sorts of things one is not supposed to be able to catch twice but in rare cases it does happen.)

Well, I've absolutely no idea if these findings got reported anywhere. Nobody even told me. 

From my first career I know full well you can catch all sorts more than once. Mumps for a start

Good luck finding anything to meet your criteria. The NHS were not that capable in Wales for certain, they were sending people to England to be tested as plaid demanded instructions in Welsh in the packs before they would allow their use in Wales.

[papasmurf]

Yes edit - I can only speak of my friends

So no data?

[papasmurf]

So yes, it's not anecdotal. I caught COVID sometime between September and November 2019 (no trace in a sept sample tested in summer 2020, positive result in a November 2019 sample)

My question relates to number of proven cases, as in data. (There are all sorts of things one is not supposed to be able to catch twice but in rare cases it does happen.) 

[T00ts]

Were they tested? Anecdotes don't count.

Yes edit - I can only speak of my friends

[johnofgwent]

Were they tested? Anecdotes don't count.

Well, like the Frenchman who was treated tor "pneumonia" in September 2019 whose blood samples were analysed in 2020 when tests became available, and like the driver for my former employer who likewise went down with "pneumonia"after driving a load of Chinese round Europe at the same time (autumn 2019 BEFORE we heard of the Chinese dying in hospital floors) and was told several months later his blood was laden with the COVID virus, i too now KNOW the hospital that took blood tests from me between autumn 2019 and summer 2020 for diabetes and liver and kidney function kept them and tested them in mid 2020. It was positive and I wasn't told.

I saw it on my medical records last month

One of the nurses recording my coagulation results found the details when I asked her if the consultant I saw the month before had reported anything on my heart failure.

So yes, it's not anecdotal. 

I caught COVID sometime between September and November 2019 (no trace in a sept sample tested in summer 2020, positive result in a November 2019 sample)

I suppose I ought to ask why the hospital is retaining tissues beyond the purposes needed but I can't be arsed. But it shows categorically the pox infection I got in Dec 2020 was my SECOND.

[papasmurf]

Well for a start people here claim to have had it twice - and survived! I know others personally the same. 

Were they tested? Anecdotes don't count.

[T00ts]

So many? Is there any evidence for that please?

Well for a start people here claim to have had it twice - and survived! I know others personally the same. So that suggests to me that there is unlikely to be a completely fool-proof jab. But the truth might be that we are waiting for Covid to lose it's strength until it is manageable. If as seems so, the jab can stop the severity of the infection then that is where the long term advantage will be. What really bothers me is the assumption that anyone who feels fit and is young is unlikely to suffer. That is disproved too many times to just be taken for granted and my overall worry is that although people feel they have recovered they don't actually know that there is no damage. I have stated this before but I had Asian flu as a child and I can personally track my lung problems back to then with an ongoing lung 'weakness' each time I had a cold. No doctors noticed that damage until I was in my 40s and then decided I had asthma which has since proved incorrect. If it has taken some time to recover with tiredness and breathlessness my instinct is that lung damage has occurred. There have been cases of heart troubles too and again I have evidence of that myself although I have no proof of it dating specifically back to Asian Flu. But I have been termed super fit all my life.

[papasmurf]

I not certain that this is the case. If so why are so many getting Covid more than once?

So many? Is there any evidence for that please?