Gibs Ready

[Thomas]

So we have someone who claims to be a Scottish republican who is pro-EU claiming that a fellow British remainer (who is also a republican) is undemocratic for wanting a second referendum on EU membership. Presumably you don't want a second referendum on Scottish independence, on the grounds that you've already had one, in which the Scottish people clearly voted to stay in the UK.

#sigh#



How many times have we been over this quackers?



How many times are you desperately going to misrepresent my position?



You know what i said , because i have repeated it to you and others many a time. You can have as many referendums as you want , but each time , you have to enact the result.



You on the other hand arrogantly thought "losing " didnt apply to you. I warned you that you were doing brexiters work for them with your anti democratic stance , and so it proved.



You pissed everyone off , got humped yet again in another election , and your dear leader swinson got taken right out the picture as well.



You didnt listen then , and you wont listen now.



Your massive ego and arrogance blinds you to everything around you.

I don't have a position on whether or not 16 year-olds should have the vote.

you little liar. ::  you supported 16 year olds having the vote on the old forum in line with the liberals policy , now you say you dont. talk about lower than a snakes belly and changing with the wind. :roll:

I'm not sure whether you make stuff up as you go along or misremember things you've misread, but what seems to get you really riled is the one thing I disagree with you about.

i dont lie , or make things up unlike you and i have a pretty good memory.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

So we have someone who claims to be a Scottish republican who is pro-EU claiming that a fellow British remainer (who is also a republican) is undemocratic for wanting a second referendum on EU membership. Presumably you don't want a second referendum on Scottish independence, on the grounds that you've already had one, in which the Scottish people clearly voted to stay in the UK.



Without that second referendum in Scotland, there is zero possibility that Scotland could leave the UK, but by your own arguments a second referendum would be undemocratic. There's no point in supporting Scottish independence if you don't support the process by which it could happen.



So you could say "the Scottish people voted to remain in the EU by a bigger margin than the voted to remain in the UK".  Yes, but more people voted for parties that supported 'remain' in the EU elections last year than voted for parties that supported Brexit.  And I believe the same statistic could be derived from the popular vote of last month's general election.  But these statistics count for nothing, it seems.



I don't have a position on whether or not 16 year-olds should have the vote.



My position on the LIb Dems is that I always voted for them until the coalition, which was a disaster for the party. I now support them again.



I'm not sure whether you make stuff up as you go along or misremember things you've misread, but what seems to get you really riled is the one thing I disagree with you about.  I am opposed to the break-up of the UK.

[Thomas]

Its a pity we dont have the time to go back to the old forum and go over all the insane deranged contradictory quotes from quackers over the years , so i have compiled a few in the short time he has been on here.



We start of with this nugget on this thread...

I said after the general election that we have to accept the result and Brexit is inevitable.

While he contradicts himself by adding all the old caveats he has used over the years to show he doesnt really accept brexit , he merely accepts he has run out of room to stop it.

I'm not saying Brexit will be a good thing, I've argued for years on the old forum that it would be a bad thing and I still think that.

One of the ironies of Brexit and all its accompanying jingoistic twaddle,

On the old forum quackers often told me he believed 16 year olds should have the vote , on this forum his new position......

I would keep the minimum voting age as whatever the age of majority is - currently 18.

...and here despite telling me since around2010 he wasnt a lib dem supporter or voter anymore , he tells us....

I'm getting on a bit and I don't think I've trended either to left or right since I first took any notice of politics. I've always voted Lib Dem and before that Liberal, with one exception, which was a protest vote against Nick Clegg using my vote to keep the Tories in power.

For the record, I voted Lib Dem.  They adopted a policy of revoking Article 50 if elected.  Nobody expected them to win the election but if they had, then that result would have been a democratic means of reversing Brexit in the same ways as the actual result endorsed Brexit. That's something that a lot of people failed to grasp, including the Green Party's Caroline Lucas, who should have known better.

A small selection of posts on this new forum where as you can see , we have a guy who says he accepts brexit when he does anything but , still deriding it in any way he can while playing semantics.



His position on 16 year olds having the vote and voting lib dem chops and changes depending on which day of the week it is , even going as far in the last post of his quoted to say he fully endorses the ridiculous  original anti democratic position of the lib dems ( a party he doesnt support :roll:  :: ) of reversing the 2016 without a referendum against the will of the people.( which the libs themselves later changed position on because it was pointed out how ridiculous it was by the likes of caroline lucas , herself certainly no right win brexit)



A small selection of the deranged zany postings of a man who doesnt know which day of the week it is , wether up is down or black is white , refuses to accept democracy and reality , while standing screaming everyone else around him is irrational and crazy.



Most of us from the old forum have been listening to his shite for the past ten years , and it doesnt get any better.

[Thomas]

It's mildly entertaining to being lectured on democracy and other topics by someone exhibiting an irrational belief that their incoherent and contradictory arguments represent the moral high ground.  There are quite a few crazed ranters on these forums but at least with others one knows where they're coming from.

Well perhaps you would like to point out where my beliefs are irrational , incoherent or contradictory?



In the time i have known you online over two differing forums , You tell me you hate nationalism ( as a lib dem) but go on to portray all the aspects of blood and soil british nationalism , believing the british " are all one race" including misquoting the likes of oppenheimer to back up your irrational beliefs.



If someone else does the same about scotland or england or any other country , you go berserk and call them racists and nazis.



You have spent much of the last ten years or so arrogantly looking down your nose at anyone and everyone who dared disagree with your world view , often even refusing to engage in debate with people , but using the forum as a sort of "dear diary" to post your hilarious warped inner thoughts.



You spent the whole of the last 4 years denying democracy , point black refusing to accept how the people of england and wales voted in the eu referendum , continually inventing new excuses to attempt to justify your anti democratic opinion.



It was always jam tomorrow with you , that the so called silent pro european majority in england and wales would emerge victorious in the next election , and after being humped 5 nil by brexiters over a four and a half year term , you crawled out from under your stone squeaking some weasal words about finally accepting democracy , when by your own admission you have done anything but.



.......and you talk about crazed incoherent ranters???



You have united every single person on this and the old forum against you , from the left to the right , scottish irish english nationalists , bnp to tory , snp to labour with your arrogant anti democratic stance.



Most folk on this and the old forum wouldnt give you the time of day , and if it wasnt for the likes of wiggy and lotsov among other heidcases over the years competing with your melodramatic deranged ranting , you would be in a league of your own as the forums most insane poster.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

It's mildly entertaining to being lectured on democracy and other topics by someone exhibiting an irrational belief that their incoherent and contradictory arguments represent the moral high ground.  There are quite a few crazed ranters on these forums but at least with others one knows where they're coming from.

[Thomas]

Well, having read it again, I'm not sure what I meant either. I thought at the time you were disrespecting HM Queen, whereas SW was not, but having read over it again I must have had a bit of a knee jerk reaction, so please feel free to ignore it. Sorry.

no worries barry.



I am  a republican , as i always have been . I also accept its the policy of the snp to retain the monarchy.



Im not disrespecting the queen at all , and if it came across as that , its merely a bit of banter and stuff sung at football matches.



I think from what little i know , the queen is head of state of many nations , and most of them left westminster rule and have no intention of ever coming back again.



You can be born in canada or australia for example, have no wish to be ruled from london , but hold either pro or anti monarchy views.



Same here in scotland.



Polls show the monarchy isnt popular in scotland , and historically we have had a different take on the monarchy to you in england for various reasons.



I know people who are extremely pro monarchist but have no wish to retain the union with england , and i also know people who are republican but wish to retain the union with england. Its a complex subject.



For me from a political point of view , the monarchy in scotland isnt on a priority list , and its way down the pecking order of "stuff to sort out". :thup:

[Barry]

Dont understand your comment barry , and i must have missed this the the other day.



Three quarters of the nations on this earth dont have monarchies , and many of them voted to reject yours.



Why is it telling a guy who by his own admission to me on the old forum was merely born in canada , but spent a large part of his life in england of some relevance to the discussion?



Genuine question i dont understand your point.

Well, having read it again, I'm not sure what I meant either. I thought at the time you were disrespecting HM Queen, whereas SW was not, but having read over it again I must have had a bit of a knee jerk reaction, so please feel free to ignore it. Sorry.

[Thomas]

It's telling that a Canadian can say this.

How about the Scots who have the same Queen? Shame on them.

Dont understand your comment barry , and i must have missed this the the other day.



Three quarters of the nations on this earth dont have monarchies , and many of them voted to reject yours.



Why is it telling a guy who by his own admission to me on the old forum was merely born in canada , but spent a large part of his life in england of some relevance to the discussion?



Genuine question i dont understand your point.

[Thomas]

I said after the general election that we have to accept the result and Brexit is inevitable.

The general election was three weeks ago , and the 2016 referendum three and a half years ago.



It took three and a half years and numerous electoral defeats before you were finally forced unwillingly to concede your anti democratic position.



So dont now try and portray yourself as some democrat willingly accepting the will of your countries people.

I stand by what I said prior to that,

Self evidently , which is what i was picking you up n in your post , the fact you havent really changed your views and are merely clutching at new straws to stop brexit (ie in my post the break up of the uk to stop brexit).

 which is that a marginal result in a one-off referendum was not sufficient mandate to take our country in a journey of self-harm

it wasnt the marginal result of a one off referendum.



Including the 2015 GE , where cameron stood on a brexit referendum ticket( which you opposed , but your liberal party merely a number of years before were wanting held , indeed jo swinson and ed davey walked out the commons over it to make political capital out of the brown governemnt)

you lost 5 elections/referendums on the trot to brexiters in england , and still you wouldnt except reality.

we have to live with it and see what happens.

you do indeed however unwillingly that may be for you.

But you seem to argue with anyone and everyone about anything and everything and would probably pick a row with the winch-man if you were being rescued by helicopter from an air-bed in the middle of the North Sea so I doubt if you'll agree!

So you have said before.



Im on here to debate first and foremost , but secondly there are many people on the forums we have frequented past and present i may disagree with  , but never the less admire and respect.



You arent one of them though , and never have been , and i will be damned if i let scotland become a tool for english anti democratic remainers such as yourself to toy with.



I have zero respect tolerance or like for anything you say , as i told you before many a time.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

I said after the general election that we have to accept the result and Brexit is inevitable.  I stand by what I said prior to that, which is that a marginal result in a one-off referendum was not sufficient mandate to take our country in a journey of self-harm.  I said we needed a second referendum or a general election with Brexit as the main issue. We've had that and while I don't like the result, we have to live with it and see what happens.



But you seem to argue with anyone and everyone about anything and everything and would probably pick a row with the lifeboat crew if you were being rescued from an air-bed surrounded by narwhales in the middle of the North Sea  - so I doubt if you'll agree!

[Thomas]

For once, I find myself agreeing with you.  



Imagine if Scotland leaves the UK and rejoins the EU, while Northern Ireland leaves the UK to become part of a united Ireland within the EU.  That will give a big boost to nationalist sentiments in Wales, despite the fact that Wales voted 'leave' in the EU referendum'.  Once the separatist ball is rolling and the UK has split up, how long will England last?

..but quackers , after the events of the last few years and your flat out refusal to accept democracy , i have to say wether you agree with me or anyone else is an irrelevance as you lost any small credibility on politics you once had a long time ago.



Your final sentence will appear to many on here as nothing more than the same empty rhetoric you have been spouting since before 2016 , and which saw englands remain vote put to the sword so emphatically a few weeks ago in the 2019 GE.



England was founded as we know it in 937 ad , and survived 8 centuries till the current union came into being of 1707 , which is merely three centuries old.



im sure brexit or not, uk , or not , england will survive just fine , as will scotland.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

So as i told you a number of years back , i will be surprised if the current uk survives brexit.

For once, I find myself agreeing with you.  



Imagine if Scotland leaves the UK and rejoins the EU, while Northern Ireland leaves the UK to become part of a united Ireland within the EU.  That will give a big boost to nationalist sentiments in Wales, despite the fact that Wales voted 'leave' in the EU referendum'.  Once the separatist ball is rolling and the UK has split up, will England itself be vulnerable to separatists and regionalists?  Could a future UK be the 'United Kingdom of England and Cornwall'?

[Barry]

No Thomas I'm just a Royalist and am quite happy to sing from my soul whenever the anthem of our Queen is played



Three cheers for her Majesty the Queen , hip hip  

It's telling that a Canadian can say this.

How about the Scots who have the same Queen? Shame on them.

[Thomas]

Whoops yes ok. Oh dear we are far apart. A republic of Scotland with a president in the EU - it would really be a foreign land. Although a Glaswegian acquaintance of mine used to completely blindside me every time he opened his mouth. My blank expression and possibly a look of horror used to make him show his softer side and repeat what he was saying in a version that I could follow. I'm sure he did it on purpose he always had a smile behind his eyes. I appreciated the foreign- ness even then I guess.

Not to worry toots ,  us scots have never ever really taken our monarchy seriously.



We used to elect them as part of the "tanist" system , then when we brought in all those wee french guys who had taken over england , and adopted primogeniture and feudalism , we used  to regularly murder them when they pissed us off.



Unlike in england where since the days of wee wullie the conqueror , the king owned england hence king of england , the poor monarch in scotland didnt even have that luxury , and was simply the first among equals , hence our kings were called king of scots rather than scotland.



Not sure what will happen short term on that front though  , the snp are in the main monarchists or have a monarchist policy while many in the party are republicans.



im sure they will be happy to keep the monarchy until lizzie goes , and to help appease the "weearraaapeeeepul" brigade ( rangers fans)but of course i think the monarchies days are numbered in my opinion.



Remember though it was your country that actually went and commited regicide and established a short lived republic at one point rather than us.

[T00ts]

james the 6th you mean?



i have been a republican all my life toots , and in scotland we have a massively different historical outlook on the monarchy than you do in england.



Nothin has changed with me , maybe you were under a false impression that i was a monarchist?









https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16238128.poll-only-41-per-cent-of-scots-support-monarchy/">https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/162 ... -monarchy/">https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16238128.poll-only-41-per-cent-of-scots-support-monarchy/

Whoops yes ok. Oh dear we are far apart. A republic of Scotland with a president in the EU - it would really be a foreign land. Although a Glaswegian acquaintance of mine used to completely blindside me every time he opened his mouth. My blank expression and possibly a look of horror used to make him show his softer side and repeat what he was saying in a version that I could follow. I'm sure he did it on purpose he always had a smile behind his eyes. I appreciated the foreign- ness even then I guess.