Mobilise,all leave cancelled.

[Sampanviking]

In a past Versionof this forum I did say we need to appreciate Russia is entitled to be nervous of its borders,Vlad though has proved to be the type who thinks nothing of despatching agents of his state to kill on foreign shores.

He does need to be made aware that the west can unite and deter,sanctions? probably not but talk and action combined yeah,Joes Afghan led debacle has done nothing other than embolden him....and others.

Why not just give Russia what they are asking for, which are essentially security guarantees, enforceable under International Law.
Its not as if there are any territorial demands being made.

The Russians have made clear that there are two things that will trigger a conflict in Ukraine:
a) An attack by Ukrainian forces against Russian or Donbass forces
b) The Deployment of NATO combat brigades into the Ukraine.

If we in the West are acting in good faith, its not really a lot to ask is it?

[cromwell]

Russia maintains its build up is a response to a Ukrainian military build up on the line of contact in the Donbass and along the Russian border at the Crimea.
The Russians have reinforced the garrison on the Crimea and put forces into Forward bases East of the Donbass. These forces are still in base and over 100 miles away from the International border, so its not exactly deployed on the border as we are being led to believe.

Moscow has two beefs with the west currently
1) Failure to pressure Ukraine to start implementing the Minsk agreement to which Russia and the US are among the signatories
2) Putin is demanding a legally enforceable treaty against further eastern advancement of NATO.

The type of sanctions being banded around are risable
Russia has left the Western Financial system some years ago, after the same sanctions were imposed temporarily in 2014.
As for imposing sanctions against Russian energy supplies in the middle of both winter and an energy crisis, I think I would ask who exactly is sanctioning who?

In a past Versionof this forum I did say we need to appreciate Russia is entitled to be nervous of its borders,Vlad though has proved to be the type who thinks nothing of despatching agents of his state to kill on foreign shores.

He does need to be made aware that the west can unite and deter,sanctions? probably not but talk and action combined yeah,Joes Afghan led debacle has done nothing other than embolden him....and others.

[Sheepy]

Well I understand you look at it differently but parliamentary democracy has been around a long time,sure it has its faults and does need reform but that's never going to happen overnight.

I tend to step back and see it for what it is, before I rush headlong into another one of their brainless moments because I can, the only way you will ever reform them is take away their toys. Being mainly their believers in their form of madness. Which as you say has been going on for so long, they don't even believe that is possible. 

[cromwell]

In what way Cromwell? they all say the same things but just word it differently. So, you think there is opposition that you can vote for, it is all bollox.

Well I understand you look at it differently but parliamentary democracy has been around a long time,sure it has its faults and does need reform but that's never going to happen overnight.

[Sampanviking]

Russia maintains its build up is a response to a Ukrainian military build up on the line of contact in the Donbass and along the Russian border at the Crimea.
The Russians have reinforced the garrison on the Crimea and put forces into Forward bases East of the Donbass. These forces are still in base and over 100 miles away from the International border, so its not exactly deployed on the border as we are being led to believe.

Moscow has two beefs with the west currently
1) Failure to pressure Ukraine to start implementing the Minsk agreement to which Russia and the US are among the signatories
2) Putin is demanding a legally enforceable treaty against further eastern advancement of NATO.

The type of sanctions being banded around are risable
Russia has left the Western Financial system some years ago, after the same sanctions were imposed temporarily in 2014.
As for imposing sanctions against Russian energy supplies in the middle of both winter and an energy crisis, I think I would ask who exactly is sanctioning who?

[Sheepy]

Show our displeasure at the ballot box.

In what way Cromwell? they all say the same things but just word it differently. So, you think there is opposition that you can vote for, it is all bollox.

[cromwell]

What might that remedy be then? that is in our hands, I don't see you or I having any say in it personally, so what will be will be.

Show our displeasure at the ballot box.

[Sheepy]

Well I guess you meant mayhem?
we haven't been well served in the leadership stakes but the remedy is in our hands

What might that remedy be then? that is in our hands, I don't see you or I having any say in it personally, so what will be will be.

[cromwell]

I guess Vlad hasn't forgotten the part played by the EU and NATO in the maiden. I suppose he ran out of patience. 

Well I guess you meant mayhem?
we haven't been well served in the leadership stakes but the remedy is in our hands

[Sheepy]

Very true T00ts,the Chinese were the Junior partners but not now,Vlad could've hooked to a more western option but i guess his years at the Lubyanka put him off that option,and some of the dross leading the western world.

I guess Vlad hasn't forgotten the part played by the EU and NATO in the maiden. I suppose he ran out of patience.  

[cromwell]

Very true T00ts,the Chinese were the Junior partners but not now,Vlad could've hooked to a more western option but i guess his years at the Lubyanka put him off that option,and some of the dross leading the western world.

[T00ts]

So we have a daft bat sat in a tank trying to emulate the blessed Maggie,Joe has finally woken up and Von der liar now sees more pressing issues than trying to humiliate us.

What did they all expect? Vlad might be taking the piss but the Russians were written off years ago weren't they.......certainly were on here,big mistake.

Absolutely. I have posted a couple of times that Putin is causing trouble and I still think China won't be far behind. It really wouldn't surprise me if they both attack together and the rest of us won't know which way to look. The latest I saw this morning was something about confronting Putin but not militarily. Putin must be doubled up with laughter. He has been in this for the long game for years. He knows exactly what he is about and has carefully manipulated the situation until he has power with his gas lines etc. China is busy doing similar in different ways. World leaders have taken their eye off the ball for far too long. I really don't understand why we are so gullible.

[cromwell]

So we have a daft bat sat in a tank trying to emulate the blessed Maggie,Joe has finally woken up and Von der liar now sees more pressing issues than trying to humiliate us.

What did they all expect? Vlad might be taking the piss but the Russians were written off years ago weren't they.......certainly were on here,big mistake.