Think Keir needs another rug.

[srb7677]

I wish you were sorry. You never admit what you would replace them with. We'd be in a pretty fine mess if all the lot of them simply walked out. Actually I wouldn't blame them. Public opinion is a nightmare and totally fake.

But public opinion is often a reflection of and reaction to what we see going on, and it looks ugly. You surely cannot pretend otherwise. Fact is both main party leaders are abject liars who have surrounded themselves with their accolytes. If the Tories want to avoid any risk of losing to New Labour revisited they need to get rid of Boris and some of those around him like Rees Mogg.

[srb7677]

Sorry but the callous, incompetent and crooked Tories need to go.

Indeed, but Keir Starmer's Labour is not it. So those of us wanting something better are forced to vote for someone else under a voting system gerrymandered in favour of the big two.

The best thing that can happen for now is that the Tories themselves ditch Boris and anyone else tainted by him.

[Borchester]

Sorry but the callous, incompetent and crooked Tories need to go.

By gum Pappy, savage stuff. You have never said anything like that before.

[T00ts]

Sorry but the callous, incompetent and crooked Tories need to go.

I wish you were sorry. You never admit what you would replace them with. We'd be in a pretty fine mess if all the lot of them simply walked out. Actually I wouldn't blame them. Public opinion is a nightmare and totally fake.

[papasmurf]

 Only if you can be very sure that you can replace them with anything definitely better.

Sorry but the callous, incompetent and crooked Tories need to go.

[T00ts]

You will always excuse the Tories, won't you? What do they actually have to do to draw any condemnation from T00ts manor?
I was in a childcare bubble.

There was never any such thing as a working bubble, as social distancing always had to be maintained, moving desks, putting in screens and reducing office space, which impacted many services, particularly call centres.
The Christmas party really made it quite clear that those taking part had nothing to fear from the virus.
Bear in mind these are supposed to be the best informed people in our country. If they thought the threat was low, then it probably was.

People who support sleaze and lies are a part of the problem. (Sorry T00ts)

Mmm I know you know I don't support sleaze or lies in fact I am probably in a minority here with what I do support in this world but it is easy to jump on the backs of the lemmings rushing off a cliff. We have to be very careful that in the carefully orchestrated hysteria at present, we aren't pushed into throwing the baby out with the bath water. BJ needs to go for all sorts of reasons that I have stated before but the Conservative party with them? Only if you can be very sure that you can replace them with anything definitely better. 
I still wonder if the atmosphere in Whitehall and Westminster was as described, who else broke the rules. It won't be just the Government. The others have got away with it thus far.

[Good old]

I did give you an in depth reply , but its been moderated so i will try again.

Anyone or any organisation who tries to portray themself as "impartial" with the common good as their only aim has alarm bells ringing in my head. You arent impartial , neither am i or anyone else.

Boris johnson is a clown in my view , who has two things going for him. He isnt keir starmer , and he backed brexit.

Keir and his party on the other hand have multiple issues we have discussed in the past which are ongoing , starting from the fact his is one of the most inept labour leaders i can remember.

Thats before we go into anything else.

Sorry to have to tell you but I really am not so partisan as to not consider the greater good of my country, at any given time. The finest thing at this minute for the U.K. in general would be if the Tories got rid of Boris,and a few others, because they are as you say elsewhere , "Dumb".
If it really was true that this present leader and cabinet is the only choice then the future of this country is not in doubt.it's steaming rapidly to being f—led , Its not a game to be solved by stupid partisan intransigence. It's a serious quest for some quality leadership that's needed. So right now I see our position as so perilous, I would take a Tory, If he, or she , actually knew how to take this country forward to better future than stares us in the face right now.

[srb7677]

I can't see the electorate , the majority of whom reside in england , and the majority of whom backed brexit , forgiving or forgetting keir starmers anti democratic antics from 2016 to 2019.

Thats before we mention anything else like scot indy , the labour left , or the uks hatred of new labour. For most people , tony blairs new labour legacy is ashes. That is of course outside the new new labour centrists who live in cloud cuckoo land that are currently running the show at labour hq.

Looks to me good old labour and starmer have nothing to offer except bleat they arent the tories , and the tories are bad.

...and hope they fall into power though the public getting fed up with the conservatives. Its a puerile game you and your fellows are playing , and it looks to me metaphorically speaking labour are headed for another electoral kicking at any forthcoming election , but obviously you will dismiss what im saying until reality once again dawns at the polling station.

I cannot really diusagree with any of that. That Labour cabnnot cut through in spite of this appalling government demonstrates that however pissed off with the Tories people are becoming, they are not interested in Labour's spin over substance back to the future gig. Labour really do seem to be stuck in a mindset that has not moved on since 1997. And the Tories will in due course ditch Boris anyway. And enjoy a bounce because Labour is offering nothing compelling.

And you are right that Starmer is not to be trusted. There are hundreds of thousands of former party members who were blatantly lied to to get him elected. Many of us saw through him from the start. But too many didn't. But we are never going to cease reminding people of his blatant dishonesty. If he could lie to us to get elected, he could lie to everyone else. If you don't want a Brexit in name only situation, don't trust him. He and his entire shadow cabinet now with the possible exception of Rayner whom he so obviously wants to be rid of are rock solid remainers. If you don't want us sucking up to the EU, leave Starmer and his party well alone. They have given up on the working class, whom they dismiss as a bunch of mostly thicko racists for objecting to freedom of movement. They see themselves as helping the poor of Europe and the world by providing opportunities here, whilst allowing employers to exploit them to drive down pay for the indiginous working class. And all the while the affluent middle class New Labour types, pat themselves on the back for their right on progressivism as they enjoy cheap plumbers, builders and electricians, whilst reaping the benefit of a constant supply of new tenants for their buy to let investments.

And they insult those of us who complain by calling us racists, because their own personal circumstances prevent them from seeing what we are really complaining about. Most of us are not racists. My best friend and a former work colleague is Latvian. It is not really foreigners at all that we have any objection to. It is the wilful exploitation of them to the detriment of both them and us that is the problem. If Blair's lot had not grown so out of touch with the working class they might have understood that and done something about the exploitative employers directly whilst doing something meaningful to restrain rents. But many of them were self-interested beneficiaries of what was happening so they chose to be contemptuous of the working class instead.

Well I for one am now contemptuous of them, a contempt that has been reinforced by my time in the party. I have seen how they operate close up and first hand. The party is full of snakes. Most of the better ones have already left.

[Thomas]

Not that the majority had voted against the Westminster party then and would have put the populists in if Boris hadn't made out, he was leading the charge to leave the EU. Nice try though, we will get there.

I think may of us have been saying for a while now sheepy , that when you run the public down a dark alley with a gun to their heads and force them to choose between dumb and dumber , dont be surprised when they reluctantly choose dumb.

The vast vast majority of the uk public cant stand either labour or conservative. We have two "main " parties full of talentless bench warmers , elected mostly in safe seats that rarely if ever change hands , mass voter apathy ususally , and yet certain folk and those at the top cant understand why clowns get elected when the whole system is a complete sham as well as being a disgrace calling it "democracy".

Everyone on this planet knows if keir starmer and his party get into power the uk will be back in to the EU one way or the other. That is labours achillies heel.

I think its going to take a few more beatings at the ballot box , as well as a clear out of pro european centrists and a new leader without any baggage  , and party conference to become pro brexit , almost the reverse of what kinnock did in 1988 before labour will get the supprot of the electorate in england.

[Thomas]

I have to admit what you state there is not an uncommon view. Which I can not agree with. First of  all Churchill, was acknowledged to have won a war , the people looked to the actual state of the countries affairs, and he did not get to be PM until much later. So I suggest Boris,s attachment to Brexit, will mean little if things go down hill at the current rate. The fear of remainers taking the country back to the EU, is in reality really remote, that is unless  there is such a mess made of Brexit and and the general condition of this country it became any port in a storm.
At this moment in time Boris, is well on course to produce those conditions. I didn't vote for Brexit. But the ground has moved and I have no wish to go back. What I'm really against is the mess Boris presides over, which as said could be the ground needed to even consider a return. I say , Tory party sort  yourselves out, and replace him before it's to late.

I cant see the electorate , the majority of whom reside in england , and the majority of whom backed brexit , forgiving or forgetting keir starmers anti democratic antics from 2016 to 2019.

Thats before we mention anything else like scot indy , the labour left , or the uks hatred of new labour. For most people , tony blairs new labour legacy is ashes. That is of course outside the new new labour centrists who live in cloud cuckoo land that are currently running the show at labour hq.

Looks to me good old labour and starmer have nothing to offer except bleat they arent the tories , and the tories are bad.

...and hope they fall into power though the public getting fed up with the conservatives. Its a puerile game you and your fellows are playing , and it looks to me metaphorically speaking labour are headed for another electoral kicking at any forthcoming election , but obviously you will dismiss what im saying until reality once again dawns at the polling station.

[Thomas]

I did say .if it wasn't for Boris, Labour, may well have been spent by now, as it stands it may be they should be doing better ,but this governments sheer ineptitude , has kept them in the game to a degree it could still go either way. This is a situation I forecast some time ago to you, which of course you rejected.
I would accept Labour were actually spent if we didn't need an alternative to one of the worst  governments in my life time, which appears to be hell bent on digging a bigger and bigger hole for its self.
I regard your customary attack on my honesty, as par for the course ,in your correspondence.

I did give you an in depth reply , but its been moderated so i will try again.

Anyone or any organisation who tries to portray themself as "impartial" with the common good as their only aim has alarm bells ringing in my head. You arent impartial , neither am i or anyone else.

Boris johnson is a clown in my view , who has two things going for him. He isnt keir starmer , and he backed brexit.

Keir and his party on the other hand have multiple issues we have discussed in the past which are ongoing , starting from the fact his is one of the most inept labour leaders i can remember.

Thats before we go into anything else.

[Sheepy]

If it were not for Boris the UK would still be sucking the EU's dick, much to the delight of vast chunks of the left and a considerable proportion of the Tory party. On a personal level I see Bojo as shit in an iron bucket, but until the nation flushes this remainer virus out of its system, he will have to do.

Not that the majority had voted against the Westminster party then and would have put the populists in if Boris hadn't made out, he was leading the charge to leave the EU. Nice try though, we will get there.

[papasmurf]

 The fear of remainers taking the country back to the EU, is in reality really remote, that is unless  there is such a mess made of Brexit and and the general condition of this country it became any port in a storm.

Brexit is a mess and getting worse by the day.

[Barry]

So is the Christmas party the problem? Actually I don't think it was. After all Barry claims that he had his and extended the bubble to fit.  (Sorry Barry) After all, these people were in a working bubble presumably. How many others did the same? How many on the Labour benches did the same? I wonder if that will ever come out?

You will always excuse the Tories, won't you? What do they actually have to do to draw any condemnation from T00ts manor?
I was in a childcare bubble.

There was never any such thing as a working bubble, as social distancing always had to be maintained, moving desks, putting in screens and reducing office space, which impacted many services, particularly call centres.
The Christmas party really made it quite clear that those taking part had nothing to fear from the virus.
Bear in mind these are supposed to be the best informed people in our country. If they thought the threat was low, then it probably was.

People who support sleaze and lies are a part of the problem. (Sorry T00ts)

[Good old]

If it were not for Boris the UK would still be sucking the EU's dick, much to the delight of vast chunks of the left and a considerable proportion of the Tory party. On a personal level I see Bojo as shit in an iron bucket, but until the nation flushes this remainer virus out of its system, he will have to do.

I have to admit what you state there is not an uncommon view. Which I can not agree with. First of  all Churchill, was acknowledged to have won a war , the people looked to the actual state of the countries affairs, and he did not get to be PM until much later. So I suggest Boris,s attachment to Brexit, will mean little if things go down hill at the current rate. The fear of remainers taking the country back to the EU, is in reality really remote, that is unless  there is such a mess made of Brexit and and the general condition of this country it became any port in a storm.
At this moment in time Boris, is well on course to produce those conditions. I didn't vote for Brexit. But the ground has moved and I have no wish to go back. What I'm really against is the mess Boris presides over, which as said could be the ground needed to even consider a return. I say , Tory party sort  yourselves out, and replace him before it's to late.