Think Keir needs another rug.

[Good old]

I have a great problem with the validity...or honesty if you like of this statement.

Anyone anywhere when considering the greater good of their country would be extremely partisan in the defence of it. Your problem , and that of your party , is that your fellow countrymen see you all as quislings who dont value your country , and wish to sell it down the river to be controlled by foreigners in brussells.
Sure , and its easy to criticise , but who do you replace them with ?

There is no one , or very little of merit in terms of replacing johnson in the tory party as leader , and your great hope of course is the tories implode and labour walk in.

No one , no one wants keir starmer and his party in government. Im neither english , nor british , dont want scotland in the uk , and dont vote either party but by christ if a gun was held to my head and told to choose between the two , i would vote tory. Thats right. Boris is dumb....starmer is dumber , so the voting public , who arent as gullible as you labour types hope , will vote boris.As it stands... its true.
It
No one wants a new labour mark two party back in power. Scot nats dont want labour back in power. English brexiters dont want labour back in power. The english northern working class dont want you etc etc  etc.I , and many others , will be as intransigent as we like . Dont lecture us on intransigence , which is laughable comeing from a new labour supporter.

I could mention the stupid partisan intrnasigence of labour in scotland over the years , or the same intransigence of new labour and remainers in england over brexit.

Typical do as we say not as we do idiom from you good old.intransigent partisan pro labour supproters like you have said the same about every single tory leader going back to thatcher and before about "serious quality leadership" , and the reverse is true about the tories and labour leaders as far back as i remember.

The current choice is johnson or starmer as the only choice for pm , and starmer is a non starter .
"our " position? Im not one of you , so there is no "our".

You have been promising the sky falling in on" us" since brexit , and the position of the yookay as perilous , and here you are again , another day another good old scaremonger.

Dont you ever get tired of the same old trick? course you would. You are a new labour centrist , who like small c tories and right wing labour. Fag paper stuff between you.

Meanwhile ,the voting public can't stand you.

Anyone who wants to go back into the EU , vote for good olds party and england being the laughing stock of the world going back into EU thralldom with its tail between its legs in utter supplication.

I see the style never changes. Or the substance as it happens. It's not that you get it all wrong, just to many of the important factors. Of course I can be partisan ,where my country is concerned, without being partisan to a party , the two are separate things thank God. No one wants Kier in power, No One? I have heard that a number of times concerning various Labour leaders in my life time it's never been totally true. According to you  Boris, can be excused for ever more as a dimwit fit for f—king this country long term. Of course I know you ain't,t kidding, just deluded.
No one wants New Labour, that again is stretching a point , and based as much on your dearest wish as much as pure fact. Not Tommy fact, pure fact.
Intransigence, I only ask it doesn't become the case, there was no lecture, and you make the case for why I would urge a lack of it.
Of course every Tory PM gets criticised in particular if what they do is not in your best interest. It is of course a matter of degree . The saddest part of the present situation is ,that you would advocate Englishmen should back a man that is the owner of a reputation further tarnished day by day, no matter how poorly he might perform.There has been no one to surpass him in modern times. Yet you recommend him to the nation. As for your not one of us. How many times are you going to roll that one out? We know that, but yer love putting your oar in ,don't yer.
I make no promise of the sky falling in with Brexit, sorry that was never in my reasons for not wanting it. I take it you were the same when you didn't vote for it?
So you think the public don't like me !I take that to mean the Labour Party. Up to date polls suggest more than a few are happy to prove you wrong, so  don't count your chickens .A hopeless plea I know ,just read your own posts. Last of all did I not say I would not want or advocate a return, to the EU. I can only think it makes you feel so much more secure if you pretend I would support that nonsense

[Sheepy]

Like hiding in a fridge?

Maybe he has come for your beer? Nope he needs to take maternity leave, modern man is our Boris.

[srb7677]

Not only that he knows when it is time to go to ground and make it someone else's problem.

Like hiding in a fridge?

[srb7677]

im not sure steve. Whatever you or i distaste for the tories and johnson , he is a vote winner and wins elections , and the tories wont get rid of him lightly.

The same was true of Thatcher, but a time came when she became more of a liability than an asset. When that moment arrived they replaced her. That moment appears to have arrived for Boris. I don't know how people feel up there - you have your own administration after all - but down here public anger is intense and widespread. Even Tory MPs are speaking out. I think a tipping point has been reached.

But time will tell.

[srb7677]

Scotlands up for giving the latest new labour incarnation another kicking.

And the biggest laugh of all is that those running the party have genuinely convinced themselves that a reincarnation of New Labour will win back the Scots. When in fact it is totally obvious to most of the rest of us that there is more chance of Starmer being the first man on mars.

I simply cannot understand how basic political common sense can be so lacking at the top. The leaders seem to be stuck in a timewarp. They probably still think that Blur, Oasis, and the Spice Girls are topping the charts, and that things can only get better, . They are in for a very rude awakening. I actually look forward to seeing the bastards with egg on their faces.

[Sheepy]

im not sure steve. Whatever you or i distaste for the tories and johnson , he is a vote winner and wins elections , and the tories wont get rid of him lightly. On top of that , he has the luck of the irish as we say , so dont hold your breath.

Not only that he knows when it is time to go to ground and make it someone else's problem.

[Thomas]

I actually doubt that. He is currently the only reason why some would even contemplate voting Labour in protest, and the only thing that could deliver victory to Labour purely on the basis of nothing being as shit as Boris. The Tories themselves will recognise this and do what they always do when their leader becomes a liability. They will ditch him and replace him with someone else.

And you can rest assured that when they do, Starmer and Labour willed be f**ked.

im not sure steve. Whatever you or i distaste for the tories and johnson , he is a vote winner and wins elections , and the tories wont get rid of him lightly. On top of that , he has the luck of the irish as we say , so dont hold your breath.

[srb7677]

Johnson will survive this.

I actually doubt that. He is currently the only reason why some would even contemplate voting Labour in protest, and the only thing that could deliver victory to Labour purely on the basis of nothing being as shit as Boris. The Tories themselves will recognise this and do what they always do when their leader becomes a liability. They will ditch him and replace him with someone else.

And you can rest assured that when they do, Starmer and Labour willed be fucked.

[Thomas]

It now appears in this evenings news that Jack Doyle, Boris,s head PR man was actually at this alleged "gathering, party,"  Oh,dear.  I only laugh, because I think I'm watching ,"yes minister,."


Edit - T00ts

  requires space between to keep dancing!

small pyrrhic victories mean nothing. As yet , when it comes to the ballot box and election time ,starmer time and again has proven himself to be a complete tactical clown and a total dud.

Johnson will survive this.

Both green party leaders in scotland , both harvey and slater broke covid rules as well in similar fashion and ended up getting promoted into government .

Storm in a tea cup  thown up by the ususal hysterical suspects.

[T00ts]

The proof re Johnson is staring us all in the face and little else has been reported for many days now. All you need do is follow the news to know that. You shouldnt need me to go to a BBC, ITV, Sky, etc website to spoonfeed to you what has already been widely reported.

As for Rees Mogg, he himself was recorded doing an Allegra Stratton, laughing and joking about the covid rules as if they didn'y apply to him.

None of which stands up to scrutiny. It's the old green eyed monster again.

[Thomas]

I cannot really diusagree with any of that. That Labour cabnnot cut through in spite of this appalling government demonstrates that however pissed off with the Tories people are becoming, they are not interested in Labour's spin over substance back to the future gig. Labour really do seem to be stuck in a mindset that has not moved on since 1997. And the Tories will in due course ditch Boris anyway. And enjoy a bounce because Labour is offering nothing compelling.

And you are right that Starmer is not to be trusted. There are hundreds of thousands of former party members who were blatantly lied to to get him elected. Many of us saw through him from the start. But too many didn't. But we are never going to cease reminding people of his blatant dishonesty. If he could lie to us to get elected, he could lie to everyone else. If you don't want a Brexit in name only situation, don't trust him. He and his entire shadow cabinet now with the possible exception of Rayner whom he so obviously wants to be rid of are rock solid remainers. If you don't want us sucking up to the EU, leave Starmer and his party well alone. They have given up on the working class, whom they dismiss as a bunch of mostly thicko racists for objecting to freedom of movement. They see themselves as helping the poor of Europe and the world by providing opportunities here, whilst allowing employers to exploit them to drive down pay for the indiginous working class. And all the while the affluent middle class New Labour types, pat themselves on the back for their right on progressivism as they enjoy cheap plumbers, builders and electricians, whilst reaping the benefit of a constant supply of new tenants for their buy to let investments.

And they insult those of us who complain by calling us racists, because their own personal circumstances prevent them from seeing what we are really complaining about. Most of us are not racists. My best friend and a former work colleague is Latvian. It is not really foreigners at all that we have any objection to. It is the wilful exploitation of them to the detriment of both them and us that is the problem. If Blair's lot had not grown so out of touch with the working class they might have understood that and done something about the exploitative employers directly whilst doing something meaningful to restrain rents. But many of them were self-interested beneficiaries of what was happening so they chose to be contemptuous of the working class instead.

Well I for one am now contemptuous of them, a contempt that has been reinforced by my time in the party. I have seen how they operate close up and first hand. The party is full of snakes. Most of the better ones have already left.

good post steve. Again we are reading from the same script on the same page.

Scotlands up for giving the latest new labour incarnation another kicking.


Scottish Parliament constituency voting intentions:

SNP 52%
Conservatives 19%
Labour 17%
Liberal Democrats 5%
Greens 3%

Scottish Parliament regional list voting intentions:

SNP 43%
Conservatives 20%
Labour 15%
Greens 12%
Liberal Democrats 6%
Alba 1%

Seats projection (with changes from May 2021): SNP 68 (+4), Conservatives 24 (-7), Labour 20 (-2), Greens 12 (+4), Liberal Democrats 5 (+1)


Look how close the greens are to starmers new labour on the list vote  . Unbelievable.

[srb7677]

Proof?

The proof re Johnson is staring us all in the face and little else has been reported for many days now. All you need do is follow the news to know that. You shouldnt need me to go to a BBC, ITV, Sky, etc website to spoonfeed to you what has already been widely reported.

As for Rees Mogg, he himself was recorded doing an Allegra Stratton, laughing and joking about the covid rules as if they didn'y apply to him.

[Thomas]

Sorry to have to tell you but I really am not so partisan as to not consider the greater good of my country, at any given time

I have a great problem with the validity...or honesty if you like of this statement.

Anyone anywhere when considering the greater good of their country would be extremely partisan in the defence of it. Your problem , and that of your party , is that your fellow countrymen see you all as quislings who dont value your country , and wish to sell it down the river to be controlled by foreigners in brussells.

The finest thing at this minute for the U.K. in general would be if the Tories got rid of Boris,and a few others,

Sure , and its easy to criticise , but who do you replace them with ?

There is no one , or very little of merit in terms of replacing johnson in the tory party as leader , and your great hope of course is the tories implode and labour walk in.

No one , no one wants keir starmer and his party in government. Im neither english , nor british , dont want scotland in the uk , and dont vote either party but by christ if a gun was held to my head and told to choose between the two , i would vote tory.

because they are as you say elsewhere , "Dumb".

Thats right. Boris is dumb....starmer is dumber , so the voting public , who arent as gullible as you labour types hope , will vote boris.

If it really was true that this present leader and cabinet is the only choice then the future of this country is not in doubt

As it stands... its true.

No one wants a new labour mark two party back in power. Scot nats dont want labour back in power. English brexiters dont want labour back in power. The english northern working class dont want you etc etc  etc.

Its not a game to be solved by stupid partisan intransigence.

I , and many others , will be as intransigent as we like . Dont lecture us on intransigence , which is laughable comeing from a new labour supporter.

I could mention the stupid partisan intrnasigence of labour in scotland over the years , or the same intransigence of new labour and remainers in england over brexit.

Typical do as we say not as we do idiom from you good old.

It's a serious quest for some quality leadership that's needed.

intransigent partisan pro labour supproters like you have said the same about every single tory leader going back to thatcher and before about "serious quality leadership" , and the reverse is true about the tories and labour leaders as far back as i remember.

The current choice is johnson or starmer as the only choice for pm , and starmer is a non starter .

So right now I see our position as so perilous,

"our " position? Im not one of you , so there is no "our".

You have been promising the sky falling in on" us" since brexit , and the position of the yookay as perilous , and here you are again , another day another good old scaremonger.

Dont you ever get tired of the same old trick?

I would take a Tory, If he, or she , actually knew how to take this country forward to better future than stares us in the face right now.

course you would. You are a new labour centrist , who like small c tories and right wing labour. Fag paper stuff between you.

Meanwhile ,the voting public can't stand you.

Anyone who wants to go back into the EU , vote for good olds party and england being the laughing stock of the world going back into EU thralldom with its tail between its legs in utter supplication.

[papasmurf]

Proof?

The only one in ten people who trust Bojo.

[T00ts]

Of course not. Talk about politically loaded straw men built on base assumptions about where I am coming from, disrespectfully attributing false motives to me. Where they were educated is not the issue, and not a point I have ever made in this thread or over this issue at all. So why attribute it to me? No the issue is not where they were educated, but the taint of corruption and dishonesty associated with them. And that is the same issue much of the public have with them.

Proof?