Think Keir needs another rug.

[Sheepy]

we are all russian bots now sheepwash . Hows the vodka your end?

Honestly i come on this forum for some political discussion and all i get is a comedy club.

Real peasant stuff 100% proof, you don't know the half of it matey. 

[papasmurf]

i have reams of the stuff on tap all ready for the next general election .

That would be  waste of your time. The dirt on the Tories started in May 2010 and is being added to by the day

[Thomas]

By the way good old, I knew what you meant about being the two sides of capitalism, just one problem with that, both sides are still run via the boardroom and American style corporations, as for China and Russia they own more of the UK than any of us, via the same system.

we are all russian bots now sheepwash . Hows the vodka your end?

Honestly i come on this forum for some political discussion and all i get is a comedy club.

[Thomas]

No it's not, sorry if the idea gets under your skin though. Do you think Cameron, was in collusion with that lot? You do like to read what isn't there.

it doesnt get under my skin. On the contrary , the vast majority i come across find it hilarious that the russians are seemignly being blamed for mind controlling us all into hating labour and voting brexit or scot indy.

Voting really is such a bloody nuisance for you anti democrats isnt it good old? It would be so much more convenient if we could just restrict the voting  franchise to various new labour members wouldnt it?

[Thomas]

The old ,old Thomas, practice of coming up with anything from as far back as is possible to trace, that may just smack of criticism of Labour. It's guff Thomas, tired at that. This could be done in any period on the Tories.it's happened to them in the past believe me. It's old news . Go and read through this weeks newspapers, mostly rank Tory, they are damming Boris, and the party day after day. Now that's new.

i have reams of the stuff on tap all ready for the next general election .

As ever labour rely on selective amnesia and the public forgetting their anti democratic antics . Im sure i and many others can help them remember.

[Sheepy]

By the way good old, I knew what you meant about being the two sides of capitalism, just one problem with that, both sides are still run via the boardroom and American style corporations, as for China and Russia they own more of the UK than any of us, via the same system.

[Good old]

ah is your name patman post by any chance?

Is this us back at the old party trick about brexit all being the work of russian bots seeking to undermine and conquer us?

stope it good old im crying here.

No it's not, sorry if the idea gets under your skin though. Do you think Cameron, was in collusion with that lot? You do like to read what isn't there.

[Good old]

another old article from the labour supporting guardian which is as true today as when it was written 7 years ago.

The crisis in the Labour party goes much deeper than Ed Miliband

John Harris

The party's senior figures have done little in the past four years to indicate an understanding of the problems besetting its politics

In 2005, Labour was elected on 35.2% of the vote and the support of just under 22% of the total electorate. In 2010, its numbers were 29% and a miserable 19%. The party now finds itself at about 35% – which, on the possibly optimistic basis of a two-thirds turnout, would give it the support of just over 23% of the voting public. Beneath those numbers lie slumps in Labour's support that are only just becoming clear: a jaw-dropping decline among working-class Scots, for instance; or the fact that its support in some once solid Labour areas of England is now so soft that Ukip can make hay.

Worse still, they sit at the heart of a feedback loop that is making big problems even worse. As Labour becomes estranged from its bases of support, it draws more and more on the self-selecting Westminster cliques that now dominate the top of the party. In turn, more and more people are alienated, and the party's support wobbles and shrinks yet further

More generally, beyond Labour's half-decent, slightly staid policy platform, has anything Miliband and other party figures have done over the past four years indicated a deep understanding of the huge crisis besetting Labour politics? And do they have any idea of what a more credible centre-left politics might look like 15 years from now? Or is it merely the continuation of a rather arrogant, Labour-knows-best kind of approach, now with an occasional leftward tilt?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/23/crisis-labour-party-ed-miliband

The very same people , milliband cooper reeve etc etc that harris was talking about in 2014 in this article are the same people back in charge at various levels of this current new labour reincarnation with the same attitudes and problems , if not even bigger problems , that beset them prior to corbyn.

There is selective amnesia with new labour and its supporters of why the labour party is in the state that its in . Mostly they ignore fact and history , and lay the blame at corbyns door while continuing to worship at the feet of a man who may have won them three election victories decades ago in another political age , but left the labour party a burnt out hollowed shell in the process totally estranged from the majority while pissing on labours old values many once held dear.

...and here we are again  . Its incredible listening to the guff certain people of blairite political persuasion trot  out.

another old article from the labour supporting guardian which is as true today as when it was written 7 years ago.

The crisis in the Labour party goes much deeper than Ed Miliband

John Harris

The party's senior figures have done little in the past four years to indicate an understanding of the problems besetting its politics

In 2005, Labour was elected on 35.2% of the vote and the support of just under 22% of the total electorate. In 2010, its numbers were 29% and a miserable 19%. The party now finds itself at about 35% – which, on the possibly optimistic basis of a two-thirds turnout, would give it the support of just over 23% of the voting public. Beneath those numbers lie slumps in Labour's support that are only just becoming clear: a jaw-dropping decline among working-class Scots, for instance; or the fact that its support in some once solid Labour areas of England is now so soft that Ukip can make hay.

Worse still, they sit at the heart of a feedback loop that is making big problems even worse. As Labour becomes estranged from its bases of support, it draws more and more on the self-selecting Westminster cliques that now dominate the top of the party. In turn, more and more people are alienated, and the party's support wobbles and shrinks yet further

More generally, beyond Labour's half-decent, slightly staid policy platform, has anything Miliband and other party figures have done over the past four years indicated a deep understanding of the huge crisis besetting Labour politics? And do they have any idea of what a more credible centre-left politics might look like 15 years from now? Or is it merely the continuation of a rather arrogant, Labour-knows-best kind of approach, now with an occasional leftward tilt?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/23/crisis-labour-party-ed-miliband

The very same people , milliband cooper reeve etc etc that harris was talking about in 2014 in this article are the same people back in charge at various levels of this current new labour reincarnation with the same attitudes and problems , if not even bigger problems , that beset them prior to corbyn.

There is selective amnesia with new labour and its supporters of why the labour party is in the state that its in . Mostly they ignore fact and history , and lay the blame at corbyns door while continuing to worship at the feet of a man who may have won them three election victories decades ago in another political age , but left the labour party a burnt out hollowed shell in the process totally estranged from the majority while pissing on labours old values many once held dear.

...and here we are again  . Its incredible listening to the guff certain people of blairite political persuasion trot  out.

The old ,old Thomas, practice of coming up with anything from as far back as is possible to trace, that may just smack of criticism of Labour. It's guff Thomas, tired at that. This could be done in any period on the Tories.it's happened to them in the past believe me. It's old news . Go and read through this weeks newspapers, mostly rank Tory, they are damming Boris, and the party day after day. Now that's new.

[Thomas]

Western democracy soon took advantage of the fall of the USSR, and those two fore mentioned in particular would love to see our political system collapse.

ah is your name patman post by any chance?

Is this us back at the old party trick about brexit all being the work of russian bots seeking to undermine and conquer us?

stope it good old im crying here.

[Thomas]

You think the whole world luv,s old Blighty then, Sheepy,.

So you see all these ghosts and ghouls lurkng behind every international shadow , yet your party wants to hand control of the uk over to those same johhny foreginer ghosts and ghouls who hate us  in brussells. ?

Compelling logic there as ever good old.

Labour party group think and the use of common sense is a hard thing to break out of isnt it?

[Thomas]

Whilst abandoning the democratic system they were actually tied to by the law of the land.
Why abandon the very system you say you worship. Or try to subvert that lawful requirement?

The people voted in a free and fair referendum in 2016 , and keir starmer played a key part in the labours parties opposition by every dirty trick in the book to  the implementation of the will of the people after that referendum.

None of us should ever again forget that , and stop the anti democrats in labour ever getting elected .

[Good old]

Well obviously, not as you haven't told me yet. Sounds like a lot like we can invent one though so we can cuddle up in a little ball together.

You think the whole world luv,s old Blighty then, Sheepy,. If our democratic system fell apart tomorrow, the first to applaud that fact would be Russia, and China. They despise our system , and they would take full advantage of the rot that would set in. Don't say we don't have enemies, we and they don't arm ourselves as we do because we are in love with each other. No it's because we know they would eat us, and they know we would eat them in certain circumstances.
Western democracy soon took advantage of the fall of the USSR, and those two fore mentioned in particular would love to see our political system collapse.

[Sheepy]

The same referendum Labour offered for votes then ignored. 

[Good old]

They backed democracy when it mattered over brexit ,something your lot couldnt and wont do.

Whilst abandoning the democratic system they were actually tied to by the law of the land.
Why abandon the very system you say you worship. Or try to subvert that lawful requirement?

[Thomas]

Does anyone take labour party promises serious?

They have been promising to abolish zero hours contracts since at the least 1989 , 32 years ago , despite being in power for thirteen of them.



Or what about promising us scots a parliament of our own ? That took them 111 years , under duress and being forced to by the council of europe , as well as anti democratically stopping a devolution yes vote in 1979 .



or what about labours empty promises on abolishing the house of lords? poster here is from 1910



You cannot trust labour ,especially new labour.

Keir starmer and his party pissed on the back of our votes in 2016 and refued point blank to implement democracy . That is something that will never be forgotten .