Think Keir needs another rug.

[Thomas]

A Labour council, operating under a Labour Scottish Executive and a Labour government at Westminster, needed to spend £150m on its schools, but rather than use a small fraction of the effectively free money that was sitting around unspent in the Executive's coffers, signed off on a PFI contract that would cost Scottish taxpayers £729m to do the exact same job.

Bumbling incompetence is one thing. But if we were the current Scottish Government we'd have police crawling all over North Lanarkshire trying to find out how anything so self-evidently insane, and such an utterly criminal waste of taxpayers' money, was ever allowed to happen. And when we found out, we'd want to see some bodies hanging from Motherwell lamp-posts before the sun went down.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/fury-at-729m-bill-to-build-schools-1426587

[Thomas]

https://youtu.be/paLSPNPfQXM

This documentary starts a little slowly, but becomes an eye-opening case study of how Labour steamrollered through crippling PFI contracts to build public infrastructure on the never-never when they ran the Scottish Executive from 1999-2007.

[Thomas]

The first four claims do have substance if considered in the totally out of context you prefer .the fifth  is a myth, as far as the majority of Labours time in power is concerned. Labour over borrowed only when forced to by the activities of the banks.

No they didnt. PFI debt wasnt for example put onto labours books , it was put onto the books of the incoming tory and snp administrations which is why it was so beloved of blair and brown.

Again we go back over old history.

In lanarkshire alond , in the mid nougties , they needed 150 million for example to build some new schools and a hospital . The labour council asked holyrood , then a lib /lab coaltion , who got the approval of your tewo mates blair and brown to "PFI " the original quote of £150 million which then resulted in the scottish taxpayer paying back over 7 times the original capital cost over some 30 to 40 years .

All this debt wasnt put onto the books of your heroes. In some cases the new snp adminsitration tried and successfully managed to renogotiate some of the dodgy labour party pfi deals and save the scottish taxpayer millions.

Stop hiding behind the bank crises when we know labour are completely and utterly fiscally incompetent when in power.

[Good old]

The first four claims do have substance if considered in the totally out of context you prefer .the fifth  is a myth, as far as the majority of Labours time in power is concerned. Labour over borrowed only when forced to by the activities of the banks. Up to that point Labour borrowing was slightly under the Tory borrowing in a same period of time. Yes they played ball with the bankers and they shat  on them from a great height . And in that time what was the Tory stance , ? It was. Give them more rope, . It's obvious now the rope was to hang Labour by.So Brown , said he thought he could have done a bit more in that situation. Obama, the man leading the country with the worlds biggest banking sector, openly and honestly claimed Brown,s actions had saved his and it follows the world banking system.
The mere fact that austerity was never needed to be applied as stringently, or for so long , has done more damage to this country than virtually anything Labour did. No money tree. No there isn't . But the banks didn't refill the coffers via a money tree.

[Thomas]

Handy that ,the one thing you need to prove and you can't. Buts not your fault is it. So absolved of any possible attempt to mislead. Still leaves loads of space to go over the same old ,This is the gospel, by Thomas.

ok well you can deny you implied what i was saying in my post. Fair enough. the proof will be in the pudding as we go forward.

Blairites like you just cannot accept tony blair left the labour party in a dishevelled divided mess from which it has never recovered.

In 2010 , it was all browns fault. 2015  It was eds fault , his brother we are told should have got the job as he was more blairite.

In 2017 , it was corbyns fault for being too left wing , excpet corbyn came within a whisker and took more votes for labour than any other leader in mdoern times outside blairs initial 97 victory.

in 2019 , again corybn got the blame , depsite being hamstrung by starmer and co , and blairite central office saying fire was too good a death for corbyn. Its always someone elses fault , but  the rot always gets traced back to blair.

On top of that , while trying repeteadly and failing to re punt the same tired old nineties blairite nonsense , modern events have further encroached upon the world you want to return to.

as i keep saying corbyn is long gone now. You can't keep whining on about him . Starmer owns everything in labour now , and so far , when push came to shove he has been an abject failure when it mattered.

just ahead in the polls and still , still short of an outright majority despite johnsons problems  and a once in a century pandemic , and starmer still can't win outright.

2 years to prove yourself and your party , and im willing to bet sitting back and waiting on the tories hanging themselves wont win you a majority. Quote me on that.

When push comes to shove in England , brexiters are going to hammer starmer rather than let him take england back into the EU. Just as scot nats wouldnt vote for him or his understudy sarwar when push came to shove.

your arrogant dismissal of the electorate will once again be your undoing.

[Good old]

Your earliest post on this froum only goes back to summer of 2020 , it was on the old forum prior to that  , which is now gone. I can't remember it word for word but it was something along the lines of not that labour would wipe the floor with the tories , but more in line with a remain coalition taking power and stopping brexit. Its al gone now of course , and history , but the context was you were wrong then as you are wrong now.
old ground. Labours main problem in the 2019 election wasnt corbyn , but starmers and the blairites pro european anti demiocrtic policy and thwarting brexit and pissing on the backs of 60 % of labour constituencies which voted brexit as you know.
i often find some people find truth a terrible thing.
I dont believe that. As ever you misdiagnose the problem. The problem was they wanted brexit, you offered up an out and out labour remainer , and they are fed up with years of empty and unfullfilled labour promises so voted dumb instead of dumber.
misdiagnoses yet again .No one took boris as a serious player from day one. When he was elected as tory high heid yin , i read remarks about him being a lovable clown , hiding from the truth and all the rest.

Boris promised to break the parliamentary log jam remainers had put in place and give the public brexit and demcoracy , which is why he won , and won handsomely. Starmer  , as general of labours tactics , offered anti demcoracy and more of what had been happeneing from 2016 to 2019 . He was smashed , and ran off blaming croybn , and then took the mantle when corbyn was told to go. All so predictable.keir starmer has achieve d nothing and doen nothing in his time in charge. in two more years , he will be tested at the ballot box at uk level. It was only easrlier this year he failed miserably in by elections in england , and for scottish parliament coming third behind the tories and snp. He has labour bouncing along in scotland on some of its worst support in scottsh political history.

Eventually  , he is going to face the music , as yet , he has been proved to be a poor performer.labour said the same in 1997 , and thirteen years later , they had destroyed much of the uk and made us vastly worse off , while trying to blame it all on some unfair international banking crises.

Labour have been in charge of wales non stop since 1999 , the vast majority of that time under blairite stewardship , and labour wales is the worst run country of the uk. I wont holdf my breath for empty labour party promises from you good old.

Handy that ,the one thing you need to prove and you can't. Buts not your fault is it. So absolved of any possible attempt to mislead. Still leaves loads of space to go over the same old ,This is the gospel, by Thomas.

[Thomas]

[Thomas]

The fact that you can not see the difference in the dishonesty shown by those two is sadly our modern problem.

starmer hs lied repeatedly , and has admitted he will break pledges he gave to win power. He , like johnson has no morals or scruples , so its unfair to castigate one without the other.

[Thomas]

I certainly don't remember saying Labour would wipe the floor with the Tories, at that time, Maybe you would like to produce that particular post. In its full context. And I could address your claim.
Your second claim is certainly an example of your never ending exaggeration of any point made to you.Yes he needs time,that's frigging obvious. No I don't use that language for any politician. How many times should it be repeated.I said Corbyn, was part of the problem , not the problem. Labour were confronted with. I don't know more than a handful of Labour supporters didn't know that. Not totally deserved but a fact. Yes you directed. That's what you do the operations you conduct aren't always successful though are they?
I disappeared because I was fed up with talking to you. Yes Hartlepool thinks  it wants to be Tory. From what people said up there , why is flimsy to say the least. I even heard one guy saying they had lost their court, and Police,. And so he would vote Tory. Well that's not all they had lost in recent times, and all taken by a Tory regime.What.
I'm back because . Yes I predicted one thing. And that was time would reveal Boris,and his lies for what they are , very clearly to you. And  that Starmer, could wait for that, and so he has been able to do. I do not predict the next election we live in troubled times ,when it's highly possible all Boris need do is hide take no more chances, and throw half a dozen goodies to the crowd a month before any vote. And with people up North not knowing that the opposition didn't take their precious local services and institutions, it was the prat you want to give your vote to, so he can pretend you can have them back. It has to be a future laden with doubt as to whether this country even has the will to get back on a track that isn't just taking us backwards, more downwards.

Your earliest post on this froum only goes back to summer of 2020 , it was on the old forum prior to that  , which is now gone. I cant remember it word for word but it was something along the lines of not that labour would wipe the floor with the tories , but more in line with a remain coalition taking power and stopping brexit. Its al gone now of course , and history , but the context was you were wrong then as you are wrong now.

.I said Corbyn, was part of the problem , not the problem. Labour were confronted with.

old ground. Labours main problem in the 2019 election wasnt corbyn , but starmers and the blairites pro european anti demiocrtic policy and thwarting brexit and pissing on the backs of 60 % of labour constituencies which voted brexit as you know.

I disappeared because I was fed up with talking to you.

i often find some people find truth a terrible thing.

Yes Hartlepool thinks  it wants to be Tory.

I dont believe that. As ever you misdiagnose the problem. The problem was they wanted brexit, you offered up an out and out labour remainer , and they are fed up with years of empty and unfullfilled labour promises so voted dumb instead of dumber.

And that was time would reveal Boris,and his lies for what they are

misdiagnoses yet again .No one took boris as a serious player from day one. When he was elected as tory high heid yin , i read remarks about him being a lovable clown , hiding from the truth and all the rest.

Boris promised to break the parliamentary log jam remainers had put in place and give the public brexit and demcoracy , which is why he won , and won handsomely. Starmer  , as general of labours tactics , offered anti demcoracy and more of what had been happeneing from 2016 to 2019 . He was smashed , and ran off blaming croybn , and then took the mantle when corbyn was told to go. All so predictable.

And  that Starmer, could wait for that, and so he has been able to do

keir starmer has achieve d nothing and doen nothing in his time in charge. in two more years , he will be tested at the ballot box at uk level. It was only easrlier this year he failed miserably in by elections in england , and for scottish parliament coming third behind the tories and snp. He has labour bouncing along in scotland on some of its worst support in scottsh political history.

Eventually  , he is going to face the music , as yet , he has been proved to be a poor performer.

It has to be a future laden with doubt as to whether this country even has the will to get back on a track that isn't just taking us backwards, more downwards.

labour said the same in 1997 , and thirteen years later , they had destroyed much of the uk and made us vastly worse off , while trying to blame it all on some unfair international banking crises.

Labour have been in charge of wales non stop since 1999 , the vast majority of that time under blairite stewardship , and labour wales is the worst run country of the uk. I wont holdf my breath for empty labour party promises from you good old.

[Sheepy]

That old chestnut. Direct. Democracy, or as some would have it , the God like ,DEMOCRACY. The beginning and end all.
Democracy ,with no caveats  can not give you an unfailing access to righteousness or truth. Only decisions.
That is only more likely to produce catastrophe , and maybe it's why it's only rarely , and sparingly ever been used in centuries.

I told you wait and see; you are all in fascism mode for now. Just a matter of time.

[Good old]

Keir Starmer says his government would be honest if it were in office. Shame he can't be honest out of office.

The fact that you can not see the difference in the dishonesty shown by those two is sadly our modern problem.

[Good old]

No I mean your belief that being part of the establishment you can change things from within, you can't you just become part of the establishment, like you just become part of the EU. Even the Scots are working that out, the only way you can change anything is via Direct Democracy, the thing they fear above all else, democracy.

That old chestnut. Direct. Democracy, or as some would have it , the God like ,DEMOCRACY. The beginning and end all.
Democracy ,with no caveats  can not give you an unfailing access to righteousness or truth. Only decisions. 
That is only more likely to produce catastrophe , and maybe it's why it's only rarely , and sparingly ever been used in centuries.

[Thomas]

Keir Starmer says his government would be honest if it were in office. Shame he can't be honest out of office.

[Good old]

if i remember your stance just before that election was that the silent remain majority were going to come out the woodwork and wipe the floor with brexiters. What happened . ?

You were wrong yet again.

Then in the immediate aftermath , you told us  starmer needed time and as a lawyer , he was something of a tactical genius who would lead labour to victory , and 2019 was all the fault of corbyn , which i then went on to dissect in great detail. First big test?

Starmer flopped at the hartlepool by election loss , a seat even corbyn held on two occassions , and new albour lost , and you went off nto hiding only to reappear recently when you smelled blood.

I certainly don't remember saying Labour would wipe the floor with the Tories, at that time, Maybe you would like to produce that particular post. In its full context. And I could address your claim.
Your second claim is certainly an example of your never ending exaggeration of any point made to you.Yes he needs time,that's frigging obvious. No I don't use that language for any politician. How many times should it be repeated.I said Corbyn, was part of the problem , not the problem. Labour were confronted with. I don't know more than a handful of Labour supporters didn't know that. Not totally deserved but a fact. Yes you dissected .That's what you do the operations you conduct aren't always successful though are they?
I disappeared because I was fed up with talking to you. Yes Hartlepool thinks  it wants to be Tory. From what people said up there , why is flimsy to say the least. I even heard one guy saying they had lost their court, and Police,. And so he would vote Tory. Well that's not all they had lost in recent times, and all taken by a Tory regime.What.
I'm back because . Yes I predicted one thing. And that was time would reveal Boris,and his lies for what they are , very clearly to you. And  that Starmer, could wait for that, and so he has been able to do. I do not predict the next election we live in troubled times ,when it's highly possible all Boris need do is hide take no more chances, and throw half a dozen goodies to the crowd a month before any vote. And with people up North not knowing that the opposition didn't take their precious local services and institutions, it was the prat you want to give your vote to, so he can pretend you can have them back. It has to be a future laden with doubt as to whether this country even has the will to get back on a track that isn't just taking us backwards, more downwards.

[Thomas]

And that on the issues of that day . An obvious low point. Certain people here think they can live and die on that day.  Most of the good will given for that result has already evaporated.  Even in those figures it is easy to see that if the prime issue of that day, which was Brexit, should start to not happen in a good way appreciated across the board , even before the electorate realises it has bought  a PM out of his depth. then there is full potential for at least a call for coalition.

if i remember your stance just before that election was that the silent remain majority were going to come out the woodwork and wipe the floor with brexiters. What happened . ?

You were wrong yet again.

Then in the immediate aftermath , you told us  starmer needed time and as a lawyer , he was something of a tactical genius who would lead labour to victory , and 2019 was all the fault of corbyn , which i then went on to dissect in great detail. First big test?

Starmer flopped at the hartlepool by election loss , a seat even corbyn held on two occassions , and new albour lost , and you went off nto hiding only to reappear recently when you smelled blood.