UK signs another trade deal.

[GerryT]

Oh gives us a break Gerry. The closest that you have been to Ireland was when your mum took you to Blackpool to see the lights.

Well if it's worth saying, it's worth saying twice.

[Thomas]

Oh gives us a break Gerry. The closest that you have been to Ireland was when your mum took you to Blackpool to see the lights.

[Borchester]

Nice play on words there, but we Irish have our freedom and in the EU we retain our freedom. Just the stupidity of some that thought been in the EU meant loosing theirs. Take it from me you didn't.

Oh gives us a break Gerry. The closest that you have been to Ireland was when your mum took you to Blackpool to see the lights.

[Thomas]

He was front and central critising T.May and her poor deal,

Sorry gerry but so was practically everyone including the snp and many others. you can't just single out johnson when mays own party from memory gave her the biggest rebellion in tory party history over it.

May and her poor deal, he supported the '350m a week for the NHS' and the 'they need us more than we need them'. So yes he promised a lot, delivered very little.

The main thing was brexit , which he hasnt fully delivered , but i still dont recall the exaggerated sunny uplands bit.

Borkie might have been happy to take a hit but not everyone that voted for a better NHS or 'global Britain' would say the same.

The point is you can't jsut keep exaggerating claiming everyone voted for sunny uplands when there was mulitple reason why folk voted brexit which we discussed at length. A large part of it was nationalism pure and simple , hence my remark about borkie.

There is a massive difference in IRL regaining it's nationalism from an oppressive invader

So you have said before but as i pointed out you are splitting hairs . People dont like foreigners having a say over them , and the english didint like that with the eu. Theres no point in ranting on about regaining freedom from an oppresive invader when the english germans and french have been at each others throats the same as the english and irish for centuries.

Wether you like it or not , history and old grudges played a large part in it , among many other issues.

It won't be his decision, he's always been a puppet. The party is what matters and as soon as his usefulness is spent he will be bulleted.

We will soon see. England however will still remain a tory supporting brexit loving country wether johnson stay or goes which is the point.

The UK could ask to re-join

I can't see that happening unless keir starmer and labour get into power , and in my honest opinion i have extreme doubts about labour and starmer.

Anyway, with brexit the rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer. Exactly what the leading classes behind brexit wanted.

Eh? What leads you to this conclusion? Im not a rich man , but im better off under snp devolution and tory britian than any time i was under blair and browns labour government. I have more  not less disposable income , and so do many family and friends.

There are always caveats and things of course arent perfect , but i dread seeing the damage another labour party government at either holyrood or westminster would bring to scotland and england.

You will have to expand what you mean here ?

[GerryT]

I suspect that Gerry is the first but won't be able to do the last until he is 18.

As to the cost of independence, the Irish spent the first half century of theirs with their arses hanging out of their trousers, but it was free Irish air and that was the important bit. Freedom is worth a few punts

Nice play on words there, but we Irish have our freedom and in the EU we retain our freedom. Just the stupidity of some that thought been in the EU meant loosing theirs. Take it from me you didn't.

[Borchester]

Im not english. Im not a tory. I didnt vote for johnson.

I suspect that Gerry is the first but won't be able to do the last until he is 18.

As to the cost of independence, the Irish spent the first half century of theirs with their arses hanging out of their trousers, but it was free Irish air and that was the important bit. Freedom is worth a few punts

[GerryT]

Why do i need to think about it?

Dont shoot the messenger and again misrepresent me.

Im not english. Im not a tory. I didnt vote for johnson.

Im calling things as i see it from the sideline.

Clearly we all understand the reason why johnson got elected in 2019 , we have went over it a thousand times.

Fair enough, as I do to, calling it as I see it. But I don't constantly question you as if you have alternate motives.

Did he?

He promised to brexit , and got elected on that promise. as yet , if you include northern ireland , he hasnt delivered. I dont recall any mention of sunny uplands except from out of the mouths of remainers like you gerry.

Old borkie even told you he was even prepared to take a hit in the pocket to get england out the EU .

Funny how a so called irishman doesnt understand this nationalism thing. Did irish republican promise ireland sunny uplands , or was the 1916 rebellion and subsequent war of independence about freedom  , and the ability for irishmen to make their own way in the world?

You dont half have a penchance for exaggeration gerry. The remainers achillies heel......overegging the pudding in spite.

He was front and central critising T.May and her poor deal, he supported the '350m a week for the NHS' and the 'they need us more than we need them'. So yes he promised a lot, delivered very little.
Borkie might have been happy to take a hit but not everyone that voted for a better NHS or 'global Britain' would say the same.
There is a massive difference in IRL regaining it's nationalism from an oppressive invader that raped/plundered and stole from IRL for centuries and a country that didn't like to make joint decisions with other countries, freely. As for Irish freedom, yes there were no sunny upland promises, nothing like brexit.

i wouldnt disagree , but i wont rule him out yet.

It won't be his decision, he's always been a puppet. The party is what matters and as soon as his usefulness is spent he will be bulleted.

Why do you care if they stay on the brexit train?

I say again , whatever happens to johnson , the english public who make up 80 % of the uk electorate dont appear to be changing minds over leaving the EU , so thats exactly where the uk will stay , on the brexit train .

You dont seem to have your finger on the uk political pulse at all do you gerry?

I meant lets keep the conversation going on brexit, it's too entertaining to stop now.
Brexit has started, decades of time before it's done, there is no going back. The UK could ask to re-join, but that would involve loosing the 4.5b rebate, ditching Stg, joining shengan, no special opt outs and a massive climb down. So no, that's not going to happen. Anyway, with brexit the rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer. Exactly what the leading classes behind brexit wanted.

[Thomas]

Think about it, the Govt raises taxes to pay the bills, those bills are higher now due to covid and brexit. Most countries will have to raise taxes to pay this debt. Johnson has no choice, if the bills can't be paid then services are cut, wages freeze, benefits reduce, healthcare goes down hill.

Why do i need to think about it?

Dont shoot the messenger and again misrepresent me.

Im not english. Im not a tory. I didnt vote for johnson.

Im calling things as i see it from the sideline.

Clearly we all understand the reason why johnson got elected in 2019 , we have went over it a thousand times.

Johnsons problem is he promised the sunny uplands, golden unicorns

Did he?

He promised to brexit , and got elected on that promise. as yet , if you include northern ireland , he hasnt delivered. I dont recall any mention of sunny uplands except from out of the mouths of remainers like you gerry.

Old borkie even told you he was even prepared to take a hit in the pocket to get england out the EU .

Funny how a so called irishman doesnt understand this nationalism thing. Did irish republican promise ireland sunny uplands , or was the 1916 rebellion and subsequent war of independence about freedom  , and the ability for irishmen to make their own way in the world?

You dont half have a penchance for exaggeration gerry. The remainers achillies heel......overegging the pudding in spite.

Johnson has had one too many blunders, he's days are numbered,

i wouldnt disagree , but i wont rule him out yet.

No lets keep on the brexit train,

Why do you care if they stay on the brexit train?

I say again , whatever happens to johnson , the english public who make up 80 % of the uk electorate dont appear to be changing minds over leaving the EU , so thats exactly where the uk will stay , on the brexit train .

You dont seem to have your finger on the uk political pulse at all do you gerry?

[Thomas]

You seem confused, I made a point and you disagreed, I said trade is inverse to distance, you said it wasn't, when it clearly is. You then asked why was it ok for the EU to create carbon emissions trading with the other side of the planet but not the UK.

Dont try and twist the thread into making it all about your inverse trade argument . The sequence of the thread is clear for all to see , as i explained above.

It was a discussion between steve and i on carbon emmissions , and the thread meandered and you got involved and tried to twist it into somethign else , and failed as ever.

The answer is those carbon emissions will hinder distant trade, so it will impact on EU distant trade

In your opinion , but that remains to be seen . Clearly lord frosts resignation apprently mentioned the uk getting involved in a high carbon tax eu type model which many tories want to ditch.

It's great to watch, as reality starts to sink in.

Which reality is that then gerry?

The reality as i see it on the ground is the uk is more determined than ever to forge ahead outside the EU. You think a by election defeat , a mere slap on th wrist  , a senior member resigning over various issues including high carbon taxes  , is somehow some sort of reality sinking in and the uk is about to capitulate or whatever other delusional fantasy you think you are witnessing?

Brexiters arent weakening , the opposite is happeneing , they are getting angrier and stronger , and close to ditching johnson. So instead of dealing with a bumbling fool , you might end up with some hardcore brexiter firebrand going gung ho.

I wouldnt start laughing just yet if i were you gerry.

Attitudes are hardening not the opposite.

[GerryT]

No im not. You are misrepresenting my argument yet again.

lets try once more to educate you in reading the english language .

In reply to nick op about the uk signing a new trade deal with australia  , steve wrote this in the second post of this thread.





Do you see the bit in big black letter where steve talks about carbon emissions? Steve is making a point nothing to do with brexit , nothing to do with who has a percentage trade with who.

He is making a carbon emmission/climate change point.

Here is my reply in post 5#




Do you understand the big words gerry? I am addressing steves carbon emmision point by pointing out the EU trades with nations on the other side of the planet which steve is silent about while attacking the uk over carbon emmisions.

The thread went on from there. Germany china was used as an example , rep of ireland and the usa another , and historical points regarding his own nation being historically a world trader for centuries.

Stop misreprestning my point and discussion with steve to platform yet more of your tedious remain guff.

Start a thread of your own , or join in with us and address the points im making , but stop misrepresenting my posts.

You seem confused, I made a point and you disagreed, I said trade is inverse to distance, you said it wasn't, when it clearly is. You then asked why was it ok for the EU to create carbon emissions trading with the other side of the planet but not the UK. The answer is those carbon emissions will hinder distant trade, so it will impact on EU distant trade. While countries look to reduce their carbon footprint, and that includes the UK, you have politicians spouting nonsense about global Britain and trade in the common wealth, china. It's pure delusion.  It's all most as if when they say "they need us more than we need them" that they actually believe it. It's great to watch, as reality starts to sink in.

[GerryT]

sure and thats part of the reasons johnson is getting grief from the tories from what im reading.  The tory grass roots arent happy with johnson trying to hike tax to its highest level in 71 years , and pursuing net zero targets based on apocalyptic doom and gloom mongering .

On top of his capitulation regarding northern ireland remaining in the eu as you and i have discussed many a time.

So why are you asking me all this?

would you like to discusss irish politics for a change gerry? or simply continue trying to bash brexit ?

I tell you gerry , you are a one man band propping up englands leave vote. one read of your latest tedious brexit lecture would have anyone running to the polls to stop labour getting elected to take us back into the EU.

Think about it, the Govt raises taxes to pay the bills, those bills are higher now due to covid and brexit. Most countries will have to raise taxes to pay this debt. Johnson has no choice, if the bills can't be paid then services are cut, wages freeze, benefits reduce, healthcare goes down hill. Johnsons problem is he promised the sunny uplands, golden unicorns. Surprise surprise it's not happening. Johnson has had one too many blunders, he's days are numbered, the byelection results is all the party cares about and the fact the next seat to be lost could be there's. They'll suffer the bumbling idiot for a couple of months and then kick him to touch, no point in dumping him now when things are about to get worse, best wait and blame everything on him.
No lets keep on the brexit train, chugga chugga whho whho !!

[Thomas]

Who's brought in carbon taxes and carbon targets in the UK ?  were you forced by the EU ?
If those measures are going to hurt long distance trade, who brought them in  ?

The supreme leader Johnson ?  The "get brexit done" champion ?

sure and thats part of the reasons johnson is getting grief from the tories from what im reading.  The tory grass roots arent happy with johnson trying to hike tax to its highest level in 71 years , and pursuing net zero targets based on apocalyptic doom and gloom mongering .

On top of his capitulation regarding northern ireland remaining in the eu as you and i have discussed many a time.

So why are you asking me all this?

would you like to discusss irish politics for a change gerry? or simply continue trying to bash brexit ?

I tell you gerry , you are a one man band propping up englands leave vote. one read of your latest tedious brexit lecture would have anyone running to the polls to stop labour getting elected to take us back into the EU.

[Thomas]

What you're doing is to very simply imply that because Germany does more trade with China than it does with Portugal (insert a ridiculously smaller country than China here)  that distance is not a barrier to trade.

No im not. You are misrepresenting my argument yet again.

lets try once more to educate you in reading the english language .

In reply to nick op about the uk signing a new trade deal with australia  , steve wrote this in the second post of this thread.





Do you see the bit in big black letter where steve talks about carbon emissions? Steve is making a point nothing to do with brexit , nothing to do with who has a percentage trade with who.

He is making a carbon emmission/climate change point.

Here is my reply in post 5#




Do you understand the big words gerry? I am addressing steves carbon emmision point by pointing out the EU trades with nations on the other side of the planet which steve is silent about while attacking the uk over carbon emmisions.

The thread went on from there. Germany china was used as an example , rep of ireland and the usa another , and historical points regarding his own nation being historically a world trader for centuries.

Stop misreprestning my point and discussion with steve to platform yet more of your tedious remain guff.

Start a thread of your own , or join in with us and address the points im making , but stop misrepresenting my posts.

[GerryT]

prepare for yet another incoming wail about brexit cromwell.

I tell you , if gerry is the leader of labours ground offensive to win hearts and minds over brexit , i think they are in for a spot of serious bother.

The party of the working people now demanding punitive measures against the working man by stopping trade with countries that are  deemed too far and applying carbon taxes to damage business. all because of a non stop petulant wail about the uk leaving his beloved EU.

Remember we all laughed when ed milliband demanded a coal mine in cumbria was stopped from reopening?

How the party fathers must be turning in their graves witnessing what this lot have become.

Who's brought in carbon taxes and carbon targets in the UK ?  were you forced by the EU ?
If those measures are going to hurt long distance trade, who brought them in  ?

The supreme leader Johnson ?  The "get brexit done" champion ?

I don't support any UK party, but you want to blame Labour on this mess   they haven't been in charge for over a decade, if you don't like what's happening there's only one place to point that finger.

So when the Johnson party pushes through their new "freedom" legislation, they can strip you of your citizenship without reason, or imprison you for life for helping a drowning refugee. Or a yr in prison for protesting, yep I wish IRL had followed the UK's example 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/19/libertarian-tories-still-ask-to-see-papers-of-those-they-deem-not-worthy-of-freedom

[GerryT]

I havent said any of this. I said china is germanys biggest trading partner.  This is true unless you are denying it.

I also didnt say or claim germany didnt sell most of its goods to its collective neightbours.

I really wish you would stop misrepresenting me in this thread , by attaching views to me that i dont hold or havent claimed , all to platform yet another tedious boring brexit lecture from you we have heard a million times over.

I made two initial points to steve.

1. the large historical caveats in his so called "localist trade truism."

2. His carbon emissions bollix.

What you're doing is to very simply imply that because Germany does more trade with China than it does with Portugal (insert a ridiculously smaller country than China here)  that distance is not a barrier to trade. It's so simple a distorted view it's hard to take you seriously. The fact is if you compare Germany's trade with China with Germany's neighbours then you get the true picture. Those neighbours market is still smaller than China's but Germany gives them over 6 times more trade than with China, why, simple, their closer.

If you look at countries trade around the world, the distance from a trading partner is inverse to the amount of trade you do with them. It stands to logic. That doesn't mean you don't develop trading partners on the other side of the world, but to think you would substitute your local partners with one's the other side of the planet is not a widely supported view, for example how much export trade does the UK expect to do with Australia under this new deal.

Australia and Spain have a similar GDP but Germany exports 4 times as much to Spain as it does to Australia.

Or maybe you could show the economic study that distance at a minimum has no impact on trade or at best helps it, is this the Johnson & Truss idiot college of international trade that your promoting.

why are you here then?

Let us reiterate the big question you continue to refuse to answer , this is a political forum for discussing a wide range of political topics from many countries.

In your time on this froum , i havent seen you discuss one single issue from the country you claim to be a national of unless someone else brings that topic up. You talk solely and exclusivly about brexit and the EU to the exclusion of all else unlike any other forum member on here.

So why are you here except to talk exclusively about , and attempt to rubbish brexit at every turn?

I've repeatedly told you I'm here to discuss brexit, you can't comprehend that and you keep asking the same question.
You also constantly say I'm from the UK.
You constantly say I want the UK to rejoin, which I don't.
You seem to have a problem listening, taking in what people post that doesn't fit with what you want them to say.
I'm not here to discuss IRL, unless it's brexit related.

I call out brexit as I see it, so far a complete and utter disaster. But if there's some sunny upland positive news I'm happy to talk about that also. How come people on here have the ability to ignore the disaster brexit is, pretending it's a great success when so far it's not. That's more interesting.

I dont care what you do or dont believe .The fact of the matter is whatever you think , democracy has spoken , and the uk is out. Im, not the one crying bitter salty remain tears constantly becuase of an inability to accept the democratic vote and the peoples wish to leave the eu.

There we go again, for about the 100th time, I know your out and I know your not rejoining. I accept the vote. But looking at what was promised and what's happening is going to happen, no matter haw much you bleat on about it and try shut it down, there will be extensive disection of brexit. The greatest event in human history of self harm any country has ever inflicted on itself.
The sad part is, it was a minority of all the people in the UK that brought this on all the people of the UK. Maybe that's why people like to stick their fingers in their ears and scream lalalalala. Blame Covid, Blame the EU (big surprise there!), blame the USA...it's never the fault of the UK.