Channel 4 tonight 19:30

[Nick]

It is being devious, and more people are getting found out.

Found out for what exactly? Not breaking the law!

[srb7677]

benefit thief or rich thief it's all theft and should be recognised as such

Indeed so. And to my mind the rich thief has even less excuse since he is far less likely to be driven to it by need and is simply indulging in pure greed.

All types of fiddles, whether that be claiming what you are not entitled to, or not paying your dues when it comes to honouring your financial obligations, if they are actually fiddles that word implies illicit, illegitimate or illegal, and is de facto fraud. Or to put it more bluntly, theft.

[cromwell]

Tax avoidance is not theft, it is being savvy.

Except that's not what you said.

You said this.......which is not the same as the above.

I'd much rather a rich person did a bit of fiddling to keep hold of money they had legitimately made 

[Nick]

Double standards Nick,benefit thief or rich thief it's all theft and should be recognised as such.
You've destroyed any credible argument you make.

Tax avoidance is not theft, it is being savvy. 

[cromwell]

Show the data that evidences your claim that the money was transferred through the U.K. 

As for your other point, I'd much rather a rich person did a bit of fiddling to keep hold of money they had legitimately made than a benefit thief who steals money they have absolutely no right to. That's a something you will never understand because you're a victim, nothing is ever your fault and it's always the system that holds you back. Whether it's a part for a bike or Pomegranate seeds in Tesco, the state is always against you, you never say oh well today wasn't my day but tomorrow will be. Sad.

Double standards Nick,benefit thief or rich thief it's all theft and should be recognised as such.
You've destroyed any credible argument you make.

[srb7677]

I'd much rather a rich person did a bit of fiddling to keep hold of money they had legitimately made than a benefit thief who steals money they have absolutely no right to

That is usually the self justification of those who are doing okay and on a bit of a fiddle themselves. As always, those on the fiddle are justified to be so. It's the other buggers who are the problem. Besides, someone not paying their dues is retaining money that is not legitimately theirs, and denying it to the NHS, schools, the armed forces, etc.

[papasmurf]

Show the data that evidences your claim that the money was transferred through the U.K. 

As for your other point, I'd much rather a rich person did a bit of fiddling to keep hold of money they had legitimately made than a benefit thief who steals money they have absolutely no right to. That's a something you will never understand because you're a victim, nothing is ever your fault and it's always the system that holds you back. Whether it's a part for a bike or Pomegranate seeds in Tesco, the state is always against you, you never say oh well today wasn't my day but tomorrow will be. Sad.

Benefit fraud costs you 11pence a week, the mega tax evasion and spurious tax avoidance costs you £50 a week.
That you are  not annoyed about the latter is frankly perverse.

There is also an estimated £15 billion in unclaimed benefits, (Which the DWP keeps quiet about.)  :-

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/blog/2021/january/15plus-billion-unclaimed-means-tested-benefits-but-the-sketchy-take-up-data-makes-it-hard-to-say-for-sure/




Sources:
 https://www.gov.scot/publications/council-tax-reduction-scotland-annual-report-2018-19/pages/2/
[ii] https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/child-benefit-child-tax-credit-ctc-and-working-tax-credit-wtc-take-up-rates-2017-to-2018
[iii] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-related-benefits-estimates-of-take-up-financial-year-2018-to-2019/background-information-and-methodology-2018-to-2019
[iv] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/222914/tkup_first_release_0910.pdf

[Nick]

It was transferred out of Britain and not declared to HMRC.
Why you insist on defending mega thieves and get your knickers in a twist about the small amount of fraud in the benefits system which actually includes error which the DWP neglects to mention, because the errors are mainly theirs, is something you really do need to explain.

The fraud is £1.3bn, that's excluding errors. 

[Nick]

It was transferred out of Britain and not declared to HMRC.
Why you insist on defending mega thieves and get your knickers in a twist about the small amount of fraud in the benefits system which actually includes error which the DWP neglects to mention, because the errors are mainly theirs, is something you really do need to explain.

Show the data that evidences your claim that the money was transferred through the U.K.  

As for your other point, I'd much rather a rich person did a bit of fiddling to keep hold of money they had legitimately made than a benefit thief who steals money they have absolutely no right to. That's a something you will never understand because you're a victim, nothing is ever your fault and it's always the system that holds you back. Whether it's a part for a bike or Pomegranate seeds in Tesco, the state is always against you, you never say oh well today wasn't my day but tomorrow will be. Sad. 

[papasmurf]

HMRC doesn't control the worlds cash, it's only responsible for money generated in the U.K.  and you have no clue where the money came from prior to being in the offshore accounts.

It was transferred out of Britain and not declared to HMRC.
Why you insist on defending mega thieves and get your knickers in a twist about the small amount of fraud in the benefits system which actually includes error which the DWP neglects to mention, because the errors are mainly theirs, is something you really do need to explain.

[Nick]

Nick when HMRC has no knowledge of those accounts because no tax has been paid it warrants an investigation.
HMRC now has the evidence to warrant such investigations.
Other countries have recovered £billions in recent years after such accounts have been revealed to them by whistleblowers and investigate journalism. HMRC appears to have done next to nothing even after evidence has been handed them on a plate.

HMRC doesn't control the worlds cash, it's only responsible for money generated in the U.K.  and you have no clue where the money came from prior to being in the offshore accounts. 

[papasmurf]

Evidence of what? People having money in offshore accounts. That isn't a crime.

Nick when HMRC has no knowledge of those accounts because no tax has been paid it warrants an investigation.
HMRC now has the evidence to warrant such investigations.
Other countries have recovered £billions in recent years after such accounts have been revealed to them by whistleblowers and investigate journalism. HMRC appears to have done next to nothing even after evidence has been handed them on a plate.

[Nick]

Nick the ICIJ can't issue arrest warrants that is up to the HMRC to get of their backsides now they have been given the evidence on a plate.

Evidence of what? People having money in offshore accounts. That isn't a crime. 

[papasmurf]

The Pandora Papers don't show any tax evasion, if it did why no arrests?

Nick the ICIJ can't issue arrest warrants that is up to the HMRC to get of their backsides now they have been given the evidence on a plate.

[Nick]

He is obviously ignorant of that despite the Pandora Papers. It isn't the numbers it is the amount £100 billion a year just in Britain. (The more that comes to light that is probably an underestimate.)

The Pandora Papers don't show any tax evasion, if it did why no arrests?