So all members are equal are they?

[Stevlin]

The point I made was, being in the EU you have to compromise. leaving with no deal and you make all your own decisions, then start striking trade deals and your back compromising. How in any way did my post demean anyone's intelligence.

Still don't get it do you Gerry? The point is, any compromising will be within the establishment of a mutually agreeable trade deal, and pertinent to TRADE - not POLITICS ..... AND we won't have to ridiculously subsidise the other member(s) in the Agreement, or cede legislative sovereignty, or involve an undemocratic Executive with a supernumerary Parliament fronting a nascent USSE... so, that sounds like a win,win,win scenario for the UK.

Bring it on!!

[Scott777]

All animals are equal ,but some animals are more equal than others .

I must protest at the suggestion that Merkel and Macron are animals.  Just a minute..... I've finished protesting, having been clobbered by a French copper.  Perhaps Orwell was right after all.

[cromwell]

You know Gerry despite everything as far as I remember you haven't gone in for the unicorn bollocks,are you lining up the enchanted forest and fairies?

No one I know who voted leave  believes in any of the above its just pathetic argument to demean the intelligence of over 17 million.

The point I made was, being in the EU you have to compromise. leaving with no deal and you make all your own decisions, then start striking trade deals and your back compromising. How in any way did my post demean anyone's intelligence.

Ah so you believe in unicorns and weren't implying leavers did?

[Findeton]

We have heard lately that all EU members no matter their size or influence are equal. So why have Merkel and Macron had a cosy dinner together. Surely it wasn't to decide how the rest of the EU will vote on the Brexit arrangements? Of course not!

You don't like the EU, but the UK is leaving so why do you care about its internal functioning?



Also, Merkel and Macron can talk all they want. Legally speaking, any government from any of the countries of the EU can veto the deal. That's a fact, even if you don't like it.

[Streetwalker]

Which is like part of the reason why we voted to leave .We shouldn't be deciding our future on the say so of  Xavier Bettel  and we don't get trade deals that suit the UK because of the considerations of the other 27 . Its also why it takes years and years and some to get trade deals with the EU  through the door .





WTO is looking more  like a good deal with every passing day

And that is a good reason to leave the EU. If a country wants to do it's own thing. The EU is like a farmers COOP, using the strength of the group to get better deals. No one country gets it's own way so each country compromises. Just a different way of doing things.



It will get a little more complicated, every trade deal you strike will come with conditions, a time will come when conditions of new deals may conflict with existing deals, everything won't go your way. Brexit isn't the land of unicorns, compromise will be required whether your inside or outside the EU.

That's right , we want to do our own thing . The different way of course means we cant do our own thing and we have to throw £50 million a week at it so other countries can do their thing . .. When a deal goes sour , gets too complicated and there is too much compromise we say bugger off and go or stay WTO.  Its not a problem .

[Nick]

I think you need to read things properly. What has EU exports to the world got to do with anything, and BTW the EU exports zero. They neither manufacture anything nor sell anything. However 15% of all German cars are sold to the UK. 1.3 Billion Euro's just in wine sales from France.



Plus I used the word collectively because they sell 67 billion more to us than we do to them : They are worse off.

I can explain it to you, and lay out all the facts for you, but I cannot understand it for you.

EU members collectively export $6.3 trillion worth of goods and services to the rest of the world — of which the UK is seeking to become a part...

The UK is seeking to be part of the rest of the world 😂



The figures you ALWAYS quote contain a percentage of UK trade IE 16%. When we leave the EU 28 become 27 and their GDP falls by 16%, or 0.05% if you went to Gerry's maths class.



On the 1st of Nov the EU'S GDP fell by 16% even if there is a deal exactly the same as now, the UK'S is the same.



If we leave with a deal the same as we have now the UK will be no worse off, it will be up up up. The EU'S GDP falls 16% and there budget falls by 10 billion, who is worse off Pat?

[patman post]

Why is this obvious myth still being peddled?

Brexit will negatively impact certain EU countries directly, and reduce its overall budget, but to believe the UK will be (is already being) less affected is obviously wrong.

Global sales of exported products from the current 28 European Union (EU) members totaled US$6.307 trillion in 2018.

The UK ranks fifth among EU exporters (with 7.7% of the total) after Germany (24% of total), Netherlands (9.3%), France (9.0%), Italy (8.6%).

In 2016, EU exports represented 15.6% of global exports and EU imports 14.8%, making it one of the world's biggest trade players alongside the US and China...

I think you need to read things properly. What has EU exports to the world got to do with anything, and BTW the EU exports zero. They neither manufacture anything nor sell anything. However 15% of all German cars are sold to the UK. 1.3 Billion Euro's just in wine sales from France.



Plus I used the word collectively because they sell 67 billion more to us than we do to them : They are worse off.

I can explain it to you, and lay out all the facts for you, but I cannot understand it for you.

EU members collectively export $6.3 trillion worth of goods and services to the rest of the world — of which the UK is seeking to become a part...

[Nick]

Collectively the EU needs us more than we Need them......

Why is this obvious myth still being peddled?

Brexit will negatively impact certain EU countries directly, and reduce its overall budget, but to believe the UK will be (is already being) less affected is obviously wrong.

Global sales of exported products from the current 28 European Union (EU) members totaled US$6.307 trillion in 2018.

The UK ranks fifth among EU exporters (with 7.7% of the total) after Germany (24% of total), Netherlands (9.3%), France (9.0%), Italy (8.6%).

In 2016, EU exports represented 15.6% of global exports and EU imports 14.8%, making it one of the world's biggest trade players alongside the US and China...

I think you need to read things properly. What has EU exports to the world got to do with anything, and BTW the EU exports zero. They neither manufacture anything nor sell anything. However 15% of all German cars are sold to the UK. 1.3 Billion Euro's just in wine sales from France.



Plus I used the word collectively because they sell 67 billion more to us than we do to them : They are worse off.

[GerryT]

And that is a good reason to leave the EU. If a country wants to do it's own thing. The EU is like a farmers COOP, using the strength of the group to get better deals. No one country gets it's own way so each country compromises. Just a different way of doing things.



It will get a little more complicated, every trade deal you strike will come with conditions, a time will come when conditions of new deals may conflict with existing deals, everything won't go your way. Brexit isn't the land of unicorns, compromise will be required whether your inside or outside the EU.

You know Gerry despite everything as far as I remember you haven't gone in for the unicorn bollocks,are you lining up the enchanted forest and fairies?

No one I know who voted leave  believes in any of the above its just pathetic argument to demean the intelligence of over 17 million.

The point I made was, being in the EU you have to compromise. leaving with no deal and you make all your own decisions, then start striking trade deals and your back compromising. How in any way did my post demean anyone's intelligence.

[GerryT]

Yep, but there T.May suggests the money will come from taxation, late in the article it rubbishes the idea of a cash windfall. So yes that is my point.

Where else does the money come from if not taxation? That is the only source the Exchequer has, May's extra is knowing we will not be feeding the EU any more. So the Red bus has been honoured.

Can't believe we are going through this again. 350m a week or just over 18b a yr, this is the UK's gross contribution. The UK's net contribution is circa 7.5b or 145m a week. That's the first issue.

A hard brexit is estimated to see a fall in GDP of 10% for the UK, that's 262b. Put another way the UK tax take was 624b in 2018, if that falls by 10% your down 62b or 1,192m a week.



Go BREXIT  :roll:

[cromwell]

Which is like part of the reason why we voted to leave .We shouldn't be deciding our future on the say so of  Xavier Bettel  and we don't get trade deals that suit the UK because of the considerations of the other 27 . Its also why it takes years and years and some to get trade deals with the EU  through the door .





WTO is looking more  like a good deal with every passing day

And that is a good reason to leave the EU. If a country wants to do it's own thing. The EU is like a farmers COOP, using the strength of the group to get better deals. No one country gets it's own way so each country compromises. Just a different way of doing things.



It will get a little more complicated, every trade deal you strike will come with conditions, a time will come when conditions of new deals may conflict with existing deals, everything won't go your way. Brexit isn't the land of unicorns, compromise will be required whether your inside or outside the EU.

You know Gerry despite everything as far as I remember you haven't gone in for the unicorn bollocks,are you lining up the enchanted forest and fairies?

No one I know who voted leave  believes in any of the above its just pathetic argument to demean the intelligence of over 17 million.

[GerryT]

After you've explained, can you answer this, how does the UK get an extension if say Luxembourg says no. Or how does the UK get a future trade deal if Slovenia says no.

Which is like part of the reason why we voted to leave .We shouldn't be deciding our future on the say so of  Xavier Bettel  and we don't get trade deals that suit the UK because of the considerations of the other 27 . Its also why it takes years and years and some to get trade deals with the EU  through the door .





WTO is looking more  like a good deal with every passing day

And that is a good reason to leave the EU. If a country wants to do it's own thing. The EU is like a farmers COOP, using the strength of the group to get better deals. No one country gets it's own way so each country compromises. Just a different way of doing things.



It will get a little more complicated, every trade deal you strike will come with conditions, a time will come when conditions of new deals may conflict with existing deals, everything won't go your way. Brexit isn't the land of unicorns, compromise will be required whether your inside or outside the EU.

[patman post]

Collectively the EU needs us more than we Need them......

Why is this obvious myth still being peddled?

Brexit will negatively impact certain EU countries directly, and reduce its overall budget, but to believe the UK will be (is already being) less affected is obviously wrong.

Global sales of exported products from the current 28 European Union (EU) members totaled US$6.307 trillion in 2018.

The UK ranks fifth among EU exporters (with 7.7% of the total) after Germany (24% of total), Netherlands (9.3%), France (9.0%), Italy (8.6%).

In 2016, EU exports represented 15.6% of global exports and EU imports 14.8%, making it one of the world's biggest trade players alongside the US and China...

[Nick]

You mean like this pledge by the Tories?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44495598">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44495598



That's 385m a week, so for once Gerry you are right.

Yep, but there T.May suggests the money will come from taxation, late in the article it rubbishes the idea of a cash windfall. So yes that is my point.

Where else does the money come from if not taxation? That is the only source the Exchequer has, May's extra is knowing we will not be feeding the EU any more. So the Red bus has been honoured.

[GerryT]

They should have put that on the side of the big red bus, it makes as much sense as 350m a week for the NHS, another beautiful truth.

You mean like this pledge by the Tories?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44495598">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44495598



That's 385m a week, so for once Gerry you are right.

Yep, but there T.May suggests the money will come from taxation, late in the article it rubbishes the idea of a cash windfall. So yes that is my point.