1997 revisited. Labour proposing windfall tax.

[morayloon]

You had no need for Alba. You have the SNP riding high already. Down here we have a chronic need for real new alternatives offering genuine change.

The SNP is doing nothing to further the cause of Independence. Of course there was a need for Alba, a party committed to pushing the SNP to do what their supporters want and what the party is all about. She needs to pull her finger out!

[srb7677]

I think Corbyn should take note of what has happened to Alex Salmond's Alba party. I remember a Wings poll where the question relating to a supposed new Independence supporting party was asked (AS was not mentioned but the inference was there that he would lead it). The response was very positive. When it came to the crunch Alba's support faded away. It has not changed much since as the few polls which give Alba as an option have shown (the party is usually lumped in with 'others').

You had no need for Alba. You have the SNP riding high already. Down here we have a chronic need for real new alternatives offering genuine change.

[morayloon]

I for one did notice that. But there are an army of hundreds of thousands of ex-Labour members just waiting for something to rally round, and potentially several socialist Labour MPs that could jump ship too. There are many of us who could never vote for the current Labour party and who would never vote Tory. Such a new alternative party would represent a far graver threat to Labour's electoral chances than any previous breakaway party of the left. It will not win of course, but it will deny victory to Labour by - as has been pointed out already - splitting the anti-Tory vote. In the long run the aim would be to supplant Labour but that would take a couple of decades at least, realistically speaking. Labour would in the meantime probably swing round to backing PR as a result of a drubbing, and try to cooperate with other centrist parties like the Lib Dems as their only hope of destroying the Tory majority in another election. But with a new party of the left leaching votes from them, this will become progressively harder for them. Though any MPs that defect to such a new party would certainly also support PR, which would suit both it and what is left of Labour.

Under PR of course no single party of the left is likely to gain a majority and would have to work with others. But by offering a genuine alternative to the Thatcherite status quo it would be likely to gain support at the expense of Labour which would wither and eventually end up in bed with the Lib Dems. If we had PR of course all views would gain traction rather than be blocked by the two party stitch up, so realistically we'd have some sort of far right party too, probably, as well as Greens. But so be it. Such a parliament would far better reflect the overall true opinions of every section of the electorate.

Any new party of the left, whilst totally backing minority rights, should avoid obsessing about woke issues and various inequalities of status, re gender, colour, sexual orientation etc, as Labour is wont to do. It should back the notion of equality for all such people of course. But the big inequality  that Labour has virtually given up on because they do not give a shit about it anymore is economic inequality. This should be the main focus of any new party of the left.

If Corbyn were to start such a party, I myself and most of my former comrades would sign up. And locally down here, we are the ones who were the most active campaigners at street level. In the local party in last year's May elections, there was much moaning and complaining about how none of us went out campaigning, totally failing to address the reasons why, or anticipating that we were all about to leave. They had hardly anyone left delivering leaflets and knocking on doors, and lost every ward they stood in in my constituency. That's a warning shot across their bows of the sort of thing likely to happen more widely, but they are of course too stupid to notice. They still seem to think it is 1997 after all.

I think Corbyn should take note of what has happened to Alex Salmond's Alba party. I remember a Wings poll where the question relating to a supposed new Independence supporting party was asked (AS was not mentioned but the inference was there that he would lead it). The response was very positive. When it came to the crunch Alba's support faded away. It has not changed much since as the few polls which give Alba as an option have shown (the party is usually lumped in with 'others').

[morayloon]

I am old enough to remember that too. But times are different now. Besides which, they were only offering a nicer version of the status quo and not real change. Yet in spite of that they were on course to make serious headway, until the political boost for the Tories borne of the Falklands war intervened.

The SDP actually formed an Alliance with the Liberals in 1981, not long after the new party was formed. At the 1983 GE the Alliance gained seats from the number won by the Liberals in 1979. So, the Alliance actually added seats a year after the Falklands conflict. By the 1992 GE the SDP had faded away as most of its members joined with the Libs in a new creation, the LDs.

[srb7677]

I am old enough to remember the Limehouse Declaration. A little over 40 years ago four labourites decided to break the mould of British politics.

How did that work out for them !!!

I am old enough to remember that too. But times are different now. Besides which, they were only offering a nicer version of the status quo and not real change. Yet in spite of that they were on course to make serious headway, until the political boost for the Tories borne of the Falklands war intervened.

[johnofgwent]

I for one did notice that. But there are an army of hundreds of thousands of ex-Labour members just waiting for something to rally round, and potentially several socialist Labour MPs that could jump ship too. There are many of us who could never vote for the current Labour party and who would never vote Tory. Such a new alternative party would represent a far graver threat to Labour's electoral chances than any previous breakaway party of the left. It will not win of course, but it will deny victory to Labour by - as has been pointed out already - splitting the anti-Tory vote. In the long run the aim would be to supplant Labour but that would take a couple of decades at least, realistically speaking. Labour would in the meantime probably swing round to backing PR as a result of a drubbing, and try to cooperate with other centrist parties like the Lib Dems as their only hope of destroying the Tory majority in another election. But with a new party of the left leaching votes from them, this will become progressively harder for them. Though any MPs that defect to such a new party would certainly also support PR, which would suit both it and what is left of Labour.

Under PR of course no single party of the left is likely to gain a majority and would have to work with others. But by offering a genuine alternative to the Thatcherite status quo it would be likely to gain support at the expense of Labour which would wither and eventually end up in bed with the Lib Dems. If we had PR of course all views would gain traction rather than be blocked by the two party stitch up, so realistically we'd have some sort of far right party too, probably, as well as Greens. But so be it. Such a parliament would far better reflect the overall true opinions of every section of the electorate.

Any new party of the left, whilst totally backing minority rights, should avoid obsessing about woke issues and various inequalities of status, re gender, colour, sexual orientation etc, as Labour is wont to do. It should back the notion of equality for all such people of course. But the big inequality  that Labour has virtually given up on because they do not give a shit about it anymore is economic inequality. This should be the main focus of any new party of the left.

If Corbyn were to start such a party, I myself and most of my former comrades would sign up. And locally down here, we are the ones who were the most active campaigners at street level. In the local party in last year's May elections, there was much moaning and complaining about how none of us went out campaigning, totally failing to address the reasons why, or anticipating that we were all about to leave. They had hardly anyone left delivering leaflets and knocking on doors, and lost every ward they stood in in my constituency. That's a warning shot across their bows of the sort of thing likely to happen more widely, but they are of course too stupid to notice. They still seem to think it is 1997 after all.

I am old enough to remember the Limehouse Declaration. A little over 40 years ago four labourites decided to break the mould of British politics.

How did that work out for them !!!

[HDQQ]

The labour party , once more , want scotland to subsidise england ? I did see that and laughed srb , and of course most scottish are laughing at starmer yet again.




Did you see corbyn is thinking of starting his own new party ? Wonder how that will go down in englandshire? Hopefully it does go ahead and takes many many votes of of starmers new new labour.

The oil reserves belong to the United Kingdom, not to Scotland or England. Anyway, in the future demand for oil will slump as we move to renewables.

[srb7677]

the left are good and ernest, but Christ they are dull and could bore the arse off a wooden indian

To someone to whom their message is irrelevant, perhaps that is so. But to those whose lives they speak to it might well sound much more inspiring.

But of course a lot could defend on the quality of the speaker. Some are better orators than others. My old geography teacher could have been revealing the truth of everlasting life and utter bliss forever more, and he would still have sounded marginally less interesting and more boring than a running commentary on the drying of paint. 

[Borchester]

 "We're the same as the Tories but a bit nicer" just won't cut it with the millions of voters Labour needs to tap who are victims of the economic status quo.

And of course, the poor don't vote. So I imagine Boris will bumble his way to victory again, which is all to the good. I mean, the left are good and ernest, but Christ they are dull and could bore the arse off a wooden indian

[srb7677]

Conservatives just gained 5 points on Labour in latest opinion poll.

It does not surprise me. The sudden big Labour lead was entirely down to reaction against the Tories causing their support to drop. But almost none of this lost vote went to Labour. There has been little if any rise in support for Labour, without which some kind of Tory rebound was always likely. "We're the same as the Tories but a bit nicer" just won't cut it with the millions of voters Labour needs to tap who are victims of the economic status quo.

[Nick]

Happily they won't

Right now Boris needs all the help he can get and the Brothers and Sisters will always be there to give it

Conservatives just gained 5 points on Labour in latest opinion poll.

[Borchester]

Any new party of the left, whilst totally backing minority rights, should avoid obsessing about woke issues and various inequalities of status, re gender, colour, sexual orientation etc, as Labour is wont to do.

Happily they won't

Right now Boris needs all the help he can get and the Brothers and Sisters will always be there to give it

[srb7677]

Did you see corbyn is thinking of starting his own new party ?

I for one did notice that. But there are an army of hundreds of thousands of ex-Labour members just waiting for something to rally round, and potentially several socialist Labour MPs that could jump ship too. There are many of us who could never vote for the current Labour party and who would never vote Tory. Such a new alternative party would represent a far graver threat to Labour's electoral chances than any previous breakaway party of the left. It will not win of course, but it will deny victory to Labour by - as has been pointed out already - splitting the anti-Tory vote. In the long run the aim would be to supplant Labour but that would take a couple of decades at least, realistically speaking. Labour would in the meantime probably swing round to backing PR as a result of a drubbing, and try to cooperate with other centrist parties like the Lib Dems as their only hope of destroying the Tory majority in another election. But with a new party of the left leaching votes from them, this will become progressively harder for them. Though any MPs that defect to such a new party would certainly also support PR, which would suit both it and what is left of Labour.

Under PR of course no single party of the left is likely to gain a majority and would have to work with others. But by offering a genuine alternative to the Thatcherite status quo it would be likely to gain support at the expense of Labour which would wither and eventually end up in bed with the Lib Dems. If we had PR of course all views would gain traction rather than be blocked by the two party stitch up, so realistically we'd have some sort of far right party too, probably, as well as Greens. But so be it. Such a parliament would far better reflect the overall true opinions of every section of the electorate.

Any new party of the left, whilst totally backing minority rights, should avoid obsessing about woke issues and various inequalities of status, re gender, colour, sexual orientation etc, as Labour is wont to do. It should back the notion of equality for all such people of course. But the big inequality  that Labour has virtually given up on because they do not give a shit about it anymore is economic inequality. This should be the main focus of any new party of the left.

If Corbyn were to start such a party, I myself and most of my former comrades would sign up. And locally down here, we are the ones who were the most active campaigners at street level. In the local party in last year's May elections, there was much moaning and complaining about how none of us went out campaigning, totally failing to address the reasons why, or anticipating that we were all about to leave. They had hardly anyone left delivering leaflets and knocking on doors, and lost every ward they stood in in my constituency. That's a warning shot across their bows of the sort of thing likely to happen more widely, but they are of course too stupid to notice. They still seem to think it is 1997 after all.

[Barry]

Did you see corbyn is thinking of starting his own new party ? Wonder how that will go down in englandshire? Hopefully it does go ahead and takes many many votes of of starmers new new labour.

Oh, yes. I didn't miss that at all. If they split the left wing vote any further we'll be stuck with wet excuses for Tories for ever. Can't bear the thought.

[johnofgwent]

These Labour prats really do seem to think it is 1997 revisited. Now they are coming up with a repeat of their windfall tax policy, this time on gas and North Sea oil....

Labour proposes windfall tax on North Sea oil and gas to reduce bills | Labour | The Guardian

I remember the last one....a one off levy that disappeared without trace thereafter followed by no real change at all. Once Labour was in power of course. We still all continued to be ripped off.

This is just another similar one off gimmick and I think those old enough to remember the last one are far more likely to see through it this time. What the energy sector needs is major structural reform, and probably some measure of public ownership, but Sir Wet Lettuce, advised by Tory Blur with his new shitehood, is never going to deliver meaningfull change. This windfall tax idea is just a transparent populist gimmick.

If you don't mind me asking, WHAT fucking oil and gas. The UK is in the shit it is because we need to import so much of the stuff