The Corbyn is feeling the water?

[Sheepy]

Blair is like a French general of 1940, still thinking the victorious tactics of a quarter century earlier will deliver victory again, without realising that times change and things move on. Like the French in 1940 they risk being blitzkrieged by people who are addressing the problems of today. Their potential enemy has leadership issues at the moment and is in no fit state to attack. But when these are resolved, Labour is toast unless they move on from what worked last time as if nothing has changed.

The mad power mongers are coming unglued and we can all see it. 

[srb7677]

I can't see what you are all so worried about anyway, you have Blair the master tactician onboard.

Blair is like a French general of 1940, still thinking the victorious tactics of a quarter century earlier will deliver victory again, without realising that times change and things move on. Like the French in 1940 they risk being blitzkrieged by people who are addressing the problems of today. Their potential enemy has leadership issues at the moment and is in no fit state to attack. But when these are resolved, Labour is toast unless they move on from what worked last time as if nothing has changed.

[Sheepy]

The Tories might be in dire straights right now,  but if anything should speak to those in the Labour party that would split the Labour vote it's the example set by the vast majority of  Tory MPs , none will even speak clearly against the indefensible , for the sake of party unity. A good number of their voters follow suit.  That's what wins elections, not factional in fighting.

I can't see what you are all so worried about anyway, you have Blair the master tactician onboard.

[Good old]

The Tories might be in dire straights right now,  but if anything should speak to those in the Labour party that would split the Labour vote it's the example set by the vast majority of  Tory MPs , none will even speak clearly against the indefensible , for the sake of party unity. A good number of their voters follow suit.  That's what wins elections, not factional in fighting. 

[Sheepy]

  Not sure it's an obsession, but it is all that does exist , and will until the multitude of options on offer ever come up with the answer to the parties best representing the needs of the establishment and people.  So far that hasn't happened ,and all to often when those that say they want change are ask what you change it with, there is no logical answer coming. 

You keep hoping that fishing rod will get the answers you desire Good Old, I keep telling you wait and see. Just remember we can form a party and win an election in 6 weeks we have done it before. The Westminster party didn't bother us then and its pretense of left and right political division and it won't next time either. It means nothing to us.

[B0ycey]

Again, you see, obsessed with two party politics as though that is all that can exist. Voting Westminster party is a mugs game, I just as well take up my invite to Scotland and vote Brussels party.

No, I am explaining that a new party would split the Labour vote and under FPTP that would result in decades of Tory rule. I doubt that is what Corbyn would want so it would make more sense to reform the Labour Party from within which has happened already when Corbyn was in power (and as such can happen again!). If we had electoral representation then of course Corbyn should start a new party. But we don't, so you act accordingly to that.

[Good old]

Again, you see, obsessed with two party politics as though that is all that can exist. Voting Westminster party is a mugs game, I just as well take up my invite to Scotland and vote Brussels party.

Not sure it's an obsession, but it is all that does exist , and will until the multitude of options on offer ever come up with the answer to the parties best representing the needs of the establishment and people.  So far that hasn't happened ,and all to often when those that say they want change are ask what you change it with, there is no logical answer coming.  

[Sheepy]

And I explained they already did change the party from within when Corbyn was leader. That was why Blairites had their hissy at the timw. It isn't my fault the public didn't elect him. There is a number of reasons for that, not policy as it happens, but his character and history. A new party doesn't change that. It would however mean decades of Tory rule though.

Again, you see, obsessed with two party politics as though that is all that can exist. Voting Westminster party is a mugs game, I just as well take up my invite to Scotland and vote Brussels party. 

[B0ycey]

I just explained what I am talking about, you keep telling them they can change things by being on the inside, when I know full well and so do millions of others know you cannot. I am not trying to sway anyone's decisions they can make their own.

And I explained they already did change the party from within when Corbyn was leader. That was why Blairites had their hissy at the timw. It isn't my fault the public didn't elect him. There is a number of reasons for that, not policy as it happens, but his character and history. A new party doesn't change that. It would however mean decades of Tory rule though. 

[Sheepy]

What you talking about? Both example parties were about an agenda and not about winning Westminster and as such that is the voter base. The SNP don't even sit outside Scotland and UKIP is completely redundant since Brexit. But even so, I get my opinions from polling and I have no idea what you are going off. A split Labour vote means a Tory landslide next election, a united vote and Stammee has a 10pt lead. I doubt Corbyn wants a Tory victory in three years and whilst Labour is one entity, Old Labour can change and shape the next manifesto. Besides, how well did the SDP and Change UK do as a breakaway party?

I just explained what I am talking about, you keep telling them they can change things by being on the inside, when I know full well and so do millions of others know you cannot. I am not trying to sway anyone's decisions they can make their own.

[B0ycey]

Eh? So, I suppose the SNP originally thought you could change things from within and so did UKIP? well, no they knew they couldn't and at the first opportunity the establishment would come calling.

What you talking about? Both example parties were about an agenda and not about winning Westminster and as such that is the example party voter base. The SNP don't even sit outside Scotland and UKIP is completely redundant since Brexit in any case. But even so, I get my opinions from polling and I have no idea what you are going off. A split Labour vote means a Tory landslide next election, a united vote and Starmer has a 10pt lead. I doubt Corbyn wants a Tory victory in three years and whilst Labour is one entity, Old Labour can change and shape the next manifesto. Besides, how well did the SDP and Change UK do as a breakaway party? 

[Sheepy]

We already know it can be changed within actually as when Corbyn was leader it did. So it can be changed and that is where the focus should be. And will again depending on who is Labours next leader. And that is where Corbyn's focus should be.

Eh? So, I suppose the SNP originally thought you could change things from within and so did UKIP? well, no they knew they couldn't and at the first opportunity the establishment would come calling. 

[B0ycey]

Oh, I see, you can change it from within, not a chance in hell. a lesson plenty of them are still smarting over.

We already know it can be changed within actually as when Corbyn was leader it did. So it can be changed and that is where the focus should be. And will again depending on who is Labours next leader. And that is where Corbyn's focus should be.

[Sheepy]

Oh, I see, you can change it from within, not a chance in hell. a lesson plenty of them are still smarting over. 

[B0ycey]

Well clearly, I am because they all agreed on the same rules and voted for them. Blair has had his day; it hasn't stopped him ruling over Westminster.

Blair hasn't been the Labour Leader for 15 years. He wasn't even the last Labour PM. So where are you keeping up with politics? The Iraq war forum?

The truth is New and Old Labour are different sections of the Labour Party and neither on their own can will an election. Together they will. And polling suggests if Corbyn doesn't split the Labour vote he will 1, get the Tories out next election and 2, be able to get behind Long Bailey. Just because we have a Blairite as opposition leader doesn't mean we don't have Corbynites as backbenchers who will shape the Labour manifesto.