New Party - True and Fair

[B0ycey]

They do , but they dont want to do it for you or for labour.

Thats the point. Labour are that piss poor and weak they are relying on others to do all the dirty work for them , where as in days gone by they stood by their own power and had the backing of a large part of the electorate.

Now , due to many issues we are discussing , they are a shadow of what they once were back in the bad old days of two party politics.

So many variables now in modern politics that are harming the labour party as i keep mentioning. Relying on the old tacitcs of yesteryear as starmer is doing , the laughable blairite tactics isnt working as we keep saying. Forum member steve said it the other day , this is 2022 , not 1997.

I think you're confused Thomas. I just want Johnson to resign. And if that means a great Lib Dem month in May than so be it. And I suspect that is what the Lib Dems are aiming to do in any case. They don't need to do the heavy lifting for me. And they don't need to do it for Labour. They will do it for themselves.

[B0ycey]

Where are they going to catch it then if they cannot use UK waters, they would have to buy it direct so less of the bullshine.

The Med? The Atlantic? But even so, they do not have to buy from us. That was the whole point of the trade deal. Give and take. Compromise. Loss of sovereignty. Exactly how much of the Wealth of Nations are you aware of?

[Sheepy]

There is nothing to stop UK fishing fleets from docking in the UK. Absolutely nothing. The problem is we are not a nation of fish eaters. Continental Europe are. So in order to sell our fish to the continent some boats will land in the EU. And in order for the EU to accept that clearly the UK have had to hand back licences to EU vessels to fish in our waters.

Blame the Marxists as much as you like. But this has more to do with Adam Smith and the invisible hand because trade is not a zero sum game. The EU was not going to let us into their market getting nothing in return and if Farage and Johnson has sold you out it is because they shouldn't have promised full control of our waters to begin with.

Where are they going to catch it then if they cannot use UK waters, they would have to buy it direct so less of the bullshine.

[Thomas]

. But even so, the Lib Dems doing the heavy lifting is what they as a party wants to do I would have thought.

They do , but they dont want to do it for you or for labour.

Thats the point. Labour are that piss poor and weak they are relying on others to do all the dirty work for them , where as in days gone by they stood by their own power and had the backing of a large part of the electorate.

Now , due to many issues we are discussing , they are a shadow of what they once were back in the bad old days of two party politics.

So many variables now in modern politics that are harming the labour party as i keep mentioning. Relying on the old tacitcs of yesteryear as starmer is doing , the laughable blairite tactics isnt working as we keep saying. Forum member steve said it the other day , this is 2022 , not 1997.

[B0ycey]

A lot of things about democracy annoys you social Marxists it has always been so, or otherwise you just carry on regardless without a thought. The Tories were meant to make sure the fishing industry could land its catch in the UK and have the facilities to process it.

There is nothing to stop UK fishing fleets from docking in the UK. Absolutely nothing. The problem is we are not a nation of fish eaters. Continental Europe are. So in order to sell our fish to the continent some boats will land in the EU. And in order for the EU to accept that clearly the UK have had to hand back licences to EU vessels to fish in our waters.

Blame the Marxists as much as you like. But this has more to do with Adam Smith and the invisible hand because trade is not a zero sum game. The EU was not going to let us into their market getting nothing in return and if Farage and Johnson has sold you out it is because they shouldn't have promised full control of our waters to begin with.

[Sheepy]

I don't really understand you grip here. You voted Brexit for sovereignty and now the Tories are forced to give fishing licenses to Dutch ships because otherwise our ships can't dock in France to sell their catch, that somehow is avoiding democracy to you. The Tories had no other choice but get shafted because that is what sovereignty is all about. Handing it back in order to enter other sovereign nations markets. Brexit was never about f**king sovereignty. It was about handing it back. That is what annoys me about Brexiteers. Farage and Johnson start on a BS bender of all these things we can do when we leave the club and now they won they are getting caught out because it was full of lies. This was always going to end this way. The EU is the bigger market and as such dictates the terms of negotiations. We will need to rely on the EU for good will just to sort out the Irish protocol and they don't actually have to do anything in theory given we signed up to having our frozen sausages checked. Brexit was a scam. I am more than willing to showcase that and have no plans to push anything under the carpet.

We may live on an island but trade doesn't work in isolation. If you want North Korean trade deals, you may regret that when all we have to eat is fish.

A lot of things about democracy annoys you social Marxists it has always been so, or otherwise you just carry on regardless without a thought. The Tories were meant to make sure the fishing industry could land its catch in the UK and have the facilities to process it. 

[B0ycey]

why is it labour supporters always want someone else to do the heavy political lifting for them boycey?

Are you hiding behind the lib dems alleged "revival" as you know starmers labour party are extremely toxic?

Why can't labour stand on thier own two feet and try and win elections without sending begging letter to the snp , lib dems , remainers and everyone else to do the dirty work for them?

Im sure we can revisit this thread after the local elections to see how exact your crystal ball gazing has been. I suspect not very , but you never know.

We should revisit this thread in the locals Thomas. Even so I just want Johnson out. Who what where and how I don't care. So if the Lib Dems do that and not Starmer, no biggy. But even so, the Lib Dems doing the heavy lifting is what they as a party wants to do I would have thought.

[B0ycey]

We will let time be the judge of that, we already know plenty for now and what lengths the Westminster party will goto so they can avoid democracy.

I don't really understand you grip here. You voted Brexit for sovereignty and now the Tories are forced to give fishing licenses to Dutch ships because otherwise our ships can't dock in France to sell their catch, that somehow is avoiding democracy to you. The Tories had no other choice but get shafted because that is what sovereignty is all about. Handing it back in order to enter other sovereign nations markets. Brexit was never about fucking sovereignty. It was about handing it back. That is what annoys me about Brexiteers. Farage and Johnson start on a BS bender of all these things we can do when we leave the club and now they won they are getting caught out because it was full of lies. This was always going to end this way. The EU is the bigger market and as such dictates the terms of negotiations. We will need to rely on the EU for good will just to sort out the Irish protocol and they don't actually have to do anything in theory given we signed up to having our frozen sausages checked. Brexit was a scam. I am more than willing to showcase that and have no plans to push anything under the carpet.

We may live on an island but trade doesn't work in isolation. If you want North Korean trade deals, you may regret that when all we have to eat is fish.

[Thomas]

They are the Generals. And I can't give you something I don't have. But what I will say is local elections are broke down into constituencies and as such roughly fall in line to the popular vote in which the Tories are 10pts down on. Given that it is a safe bet that if the votes move from the Tories and go to the Lib Dems, we can expect to see a good night for the Liberals right now. I won't say it will be enough to start talking about taking shit loads of councils. But enough for the Tories to lose overall majority within them.

why is it labour supporters always want someone else to do the heavy political lifting for them boycey?

Are you hiding behind the lib dems alleged "revival" as you know starmers labour party are extremely toxic?

Why cant labour stand on thier own two feet and try and win elections without sending begging letter to the snp , lib dems , remainers and everyone else to do the dirty work for them?

Im sure we can revisit this thread after the local elections to see how exact your crystal ball gazing has been. I suspect not very , but you never know.

[Sheepy]

Who says I want to cover them up? I would rather expose them.

We will let time be the judge of that, we already know plenty for now and what lengths the Westminster party will goto so they can avoid democracy.

[B0ycey]

Are they local election seats?

Get some predictions for Councils and we can maybe have a flutter.

They are the Generals. And I can't give you something I don't have. But what I will say is local elections are broke down into constituencies and as such roughly fall in line to the popular vote in which the Tories are 10pts down on. Given that it is a safe bet that if the votes move from the Tories and go to the Lib Dems, we can expect to see a good night for the Liberals right now. I won't say it will be enough to start talking about taking shit loads of councils. But enough for the Tories to lose overall majority within them.

[cromwell]

Are they local election seats?

Get some predictions for Councils and we can maybe have a flutter.

You always lose

[Borchester]

I haven't seen polling for the local elections only the Generals. I am on my phone so can't publish the figures sorry. But I have them in front of me now. But depending on whether you want to trust my word or not, Labour are on course for 314 seats, most gains in the North, Tories 220, and lib Dems 38. I understand those figures to you might not seem like the Lib Dems have done well, but it is the voting attention in rural constituencies swings that matter for them with some as much as 30% and BoJo and Raab are on course to.lose their seats to the Lib Dems.

Are they local election seats?

Get some predictions for Councils and we can maybe have a flutter.

[Thomas]

I wish I had your optimism.

I still wander down to the odd count and the feeling on the streets towards the Tories outside of Cardiff is the same as when Maggie rejoiced as mounted police trampled miners underfoot

Of course that image is utter bollix.

The truth is the Police did f**k all when I drove a JCB straight through the picket line at the university hospital of Wales, intending to smash down the locked doors to the morgue to allow the undertaker to retrieve my great uncles body for burial.

And any who stood near a picket line as the coal lorries arrived to take the fuel to power the nation's power stations knew how false the TV footage was.

But hatred for the Tories is palpable, visceral round here still. And the PR system means they will never in a million years get a majority and no one will ever bed them

nearly 23 years approaching labour have run wales , and from what you tell me , and what i read on the place , its the worst run of the uk nations. In practially every avenue of life , labour have their welsh fiefdom bottom of the uk league.

As i said john , you know better than me , but scotland shows old habits and bad habits more to the point can be broken.

The welsh might be a wee bit more ingrained , but eventually the tipping point and disgust with labour surely will be reached as it has been in northern england and scotland?

The valleys and miners were no more working class than my old home on red clydeside , but today , red clydeside wouldnt piss on the labour party for all the money in the world.

[johnofgwent]

i wouldnt be so sure about wales staying a labour fiefdom for eternity . Im old enough to remember them weighing the labour vote in glesga when they said the same thing about the donkeys with red rosettes.

I bow to your superior knowledge of your own country of course , ut its interesting loking between the lines and seeing the massive cracks open up in the labour parties same old strategy of hoping everyone else does the heavy lifting for them and they somehow fall into power at westmisnter.

I wish I had your optimism.

I still wander down to the odd count and the feeling on the streets towards the Tories outside of Cardiff is the same as when Maggie rejoiced as mounted police trampled miners underfoot 

Of course that image is utter bollix.

The truth is the Police did F@@@ all when I drove a JCB straight through the picket line at the university hospital of Wales, intending to smash down the locked doors to the morgue to allow the undertaker to retrieve my great uncles body for burial.

And any who stood near a picket line as the coal lorries arrived to take the fuel to power the nation's power stations knew how false the TV footage was.

But hatred for the Tories is palpable, visceral round here still. And the PR system means they will never in a million years get a majority and no one will ever bed them