Leave means leave: Has Boris betrayed us over fishing?

[Sheepy]

What exactly is freedom? Regaining powers to then return them back?

The truth is the EU were never going to bend over to please us because we are a significantly smaller market. The person who dictates the terms of trade is ALWAYS the largest market. The reason we are giving away licences to EU fleets is because we need to sell our fish to the EU. Control of our waters means absolutely f**k all if you cannot sell the fish that swims in them.

As for the EU expansion, it should be said all EU states have a veto. No expansion is possible without the consent of all member states. But it does make sense to pool your money and make one very large (and relatively cheap) armed force and as such it shouldn't be a surprise if that is the direction the EU head. In fact is the the UK veto that was holding that up initially. Besides, as I say to all Brexiteers, what is it you fear the most? That the EU turns into a success? Or that Brexit turns into a failure. Because we have "our" so called sovereignty back and all we are doing is going back to the EU and asking for concessions in which we signed up to in order to fix the problems we made by leaving the EU. How ironic.

Nice try, but one way or another we will have our freedom from the EU and the Westminster party. Like I keep telling you time is on our side we ain't panicking the EU and the Westminster party are. 

[B0ycey]

Freedom isn't an idea you can crush, even in a psychological germ warfare. It still existed.  Now you are admitting we were right all along about the true objectives of the EU.

What exactly is freedom? Regaining powers to then return them back?

The truth is the EU were never going to bend over to please us because we are a significantly smaller market. The person who dictates the terms of trade is ALWAYS the largest market. The reason we are giving away licences to EU fleets is because we need to sell our fish to the EU. Control of our waters means absolutely f**k all if you cannot sell the fish that swims in them.

As for the EU expansion, it should be said that all EU states have a veto. No expansion is possible without the consent of all member states. But it does make sense to pool your money and make one very large (and relatively cheap) armed force and as such it shouldn't be a surprise if that is the direction the EU head. In fact it was the UK veto that was holding that up initially. Besides, as I say to all Brexiteers, what is it you fear the most? That the EU turns into a success? Or that Brexit turns into a failure? Because we have "our" so called sovereignty back now and all we are doing is going back to the EU and asking for concessions in which we signed up to in order to fix the problems we made by leaving the EU. How ironic.

[Good old]

We will have to see what the full price of Brexit actually is. And I don't think we are likely to want back in unless it proves a disaster..
But it was sold, as gaining freedom. That was rubbish, it merely meant we no longer planned to Co- Operate with our neighbours to the degree we had been for forty years or so.
The only certainty about that was that by and large the politics of this country were back by and large firmly in the hands of the people that have ruled this Country England, for at least a thousand years. I say England, because the U.K. is no longer a certainty. And Scotland ,really didn't want Brexit. This is not freedom for the people , it's the UKs political elite free from the EU. And although the water remains muddy, it's already becoming clear that might not be the best thing that could ever have happened .

[Sheepy]

The old chestnut is the EU are now beginning to take their own national security seriously when before they left it for America to sort out. It began with PESCO and soon it will end with the European Defence Pact. Say what you want about Macron, but he knows where continental Europe is heading and seems to have general support with his vision growing. I am not saying the EU is going to be growing anytime soon, but I will say it seems to have plans to grow to counter the threat of other powers such as Russia and to a lesser extent China and America. They can see the world will be dominated by superpower States and they want to be one of them. The UK has a rich history, but unfortunately is still an island and has weight simply due to their vote in the UN Council. And that is why the UK will return to the EU. Like France did with NATO. They soon won't have a voice in Europe and their global voice will be drowned out by the EU. The only fix to that is to rejoin the club, a club the youth voice wanted to retain in the referendum and voice that becomes more important as Brexiteers die off.

Freedom isn't an idea you can crush, even in a psychological germ warfare. It still existed.  Now you are admitting we were right all along about the true objectives of the EU.

[Barry]

The whole point here is surely the literal meaning of the mantra taking back control.

I don't care if WE invite foreigners to work in the United Kingdom I was born in. I don't care if WE give the right to fish in OUR waters to others.  I care that WE are the ones making those choices and that *I* have a say in throwing out of the house and into the Thames any who sell that too cheaply.

While inside the abomination the EU has mutated into 500 million bastard's were allowed to stomp their way in without anyone here getting a say.

That is no longer the case.

That's the real prize here. We get the right to choose whether to let the bastards in.

And they need to be openly, publicly grateful for that.

Which means CougarFucker Macron has a way to go on the contrition scale yet

Your point is a bit sticky whilst the beaches at Hastings are crowded with illegal immigrants. We don't send them back, so what point is having the choice?

How's Liz Truss getting on with bringing the stubborn EU to heel?

[B0ycey]

Ah that old Chestnut, the EU has come up against the Russian borders so I reckon they might have something to say about that. You might well have to get your Authoritarian gun out.

The old chestnut is the EU are now beginning to take their own national security seriously when before they left it for America to sort out. It began with PESCO and soon it will end with the European Defence Pact. Say what you want about Macron, but he knows where continental Europe is heading and seems to have general support with his vision growing. I am not saying the EU is going to be growing anytime soon, but I will say it seems to have plans to grow to counter the threat of other powers such as Russia and to a lesser extent China and America. They can see the world will be dominated by superpower States and they want to be one of them. The UK has a rich history, but unfortunately is still an island and has weight simply due to their vote in the UN Council. And that is why the UK will return to the EU. Like France did with NATO. They soon won't have a voice in Europe and their global voice will be drowned out by the EU. The only fix to that is to rejoin the club, a club the youth voice wanted to retain in the referendum and voice that becomes more important as Brexiteers die off.

[papasmurf]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1550434/brexit-live-news-boris-johnson-fishing-licences-macron-france-eu-news-Liz-Truss

It seems Boris has sold us out on fish.

It is a disaster here in Cornwall and getting worse, the latest set of regulations that came into force on January the 1st will be the last nail in the coffin for more Cornish fishermen with yet another lot of regulations in July for them to contend with.
George Useless's "teething problems" are a rabid dog biting the local fishing industry on the backside.

[Sheepy]

. The EU is growing and soon we will be begging to return to the club in a few decades time just so we have some influence in the world

Ah that old Chestnut, the EU has come up against the Russian borders so I reckon they might have something to say about that. You might well have to get your Authoritarian gun out. 

[B0ycey]

The whole point here is surely the literal meaning of the mantra taking back control.

I don't care if WE invite foreigners to work in the United Kingdom I was born in. I don't care if WE give the right to fish in OUR waters to others.  I care that WE are the ones making those choices and that *I* have a say in throwing out of the house and into the Thames any who sell that too cheaply.

There are a number of reasons people voted Brexit. Trade clearly has been a failure. We swapped free excess to the largest market on the planet and replaced it with Australia. That is barely an increase of 1% GDP whilst half empty wagons are sent back to France. And of course this article was on fishing, a market that is really tiny in the UK, and a market in which fishermen need to sell their catch to the continent in order to make ends meat.

Nonetheless I see from your response, that is a small sacrifice to make in order to "protect" our borders from EU workers. Perhaps we might have some control here. But need I remind you, non EU migrants are making record number crossings to enter the UK illegally from France and France has no obligation to stop that since the UK is no longer in the EU. We have a crisis in some sectors, most notably in transport, farming and care but to some extent warehousing because we sent everyone home and now nobody wants to come back for only a three month visa. Our trade deal with India may well mean an influx of Indian workers replacing Eastern European workers to tackle this issue and then we go full circle on uncontrolled immigration again. Do you think EU workers really stole jobs given job vacancies are at record figures but unemployment remains high? It seems to me the notion EU workers had they were simply doing jobs the UK workers weren't prepared to do rings true given we are having a healthcare crisis and and produce farmers are having to throw away good stock because there isn't anyone to pick the tomato off the vine. Brexit is a failure. It is that simple. We replace control with fuckups and the only fix is to make deals with the EU. Even the protocol requires good will from the EU given we signed up to frozen sausages being checked in the Irish Sea and now we see the mistake of doing so.

The Tories are a joke. The EU is growing and soon we will be begging to return to the club in a few decades time just so we have some influence in the world. We threw away our rebate of this notion of sovereignty and this article just shows you what sovereignty really means. f**k all. Also, we have tariffs on steal by the US which the EU no longer have given just how insignificant our market actually is. Nobody was going to beg to trade with us as shown by the only sole deal we have made with a market a third our size. Another Leave lie comes to roost it seems.

[Sheepy]

Leave means, well not really, leave means we don't like you taking our voters and telling us what we should do. Leave means what do you think this is, some kind of democracy, no chance. Leave means don't be ridiculous you will do as you are told and we will do as we wish. 

[johnofgwent]

Has he dropped the ball though?

The truth is a trade relationship works both ways. The better the excess to EU markets, the more concessions you have to give away. I don't know why anyone thought the EU was going to bend over to please the British after Brexit. But we aren't a nation of fish eaters and as such our fishermen sell their catch to the EU. Unless you want the fiasco we saw last year of UK boats being turned away from France ports occuring everyday, licenses have to be handed out to EU boats. That is just the way it is. And Brexiteers need to see the clusterfuck for what it was. Brexit was a scam and none of the promises the Leave Campaign gave us, from NHS funding to trade deals, Northern Ireland and sovereignty came to light. We are weaker for Brexit and only Covid has masked just what a f**k up it really was.

The whole point here is surely the literal meaning of the mantra taking back control.

I don't care if WE invite foreigners to work in the United Kingdom I was born in. I don't care if WE give the right to fish in OUR waters to others.  I care that WE are the ones making those choices and that *I* have a say in throwing out of the house and into the Thames any who sell that too cheaply.

While inside the abomination the EU has mutated into 500 million bastard's were allowed to stomp their way in without anyone here getting a say.

That is no longer the case.

That's the real prize here. We get the right to choose whether to let the bastards in.

And they need to be openly, publicly grateful for that.

Which means CougarFucker Macron has a way to go on the contrition scale yet

[B0ycey]

Has he dropped the ball though?

The truth is a trade relationship works both ways. The better the excess to EU markets, the more concessions you have to give away. I don't know why anyone thought the EU was going to bend over to please the British after Brexit. But we aren't a nation of fish eaters and as such our fishermen sell their catch to the EU. Unless you want the fiasco we saw last year of UK boats being turned away from France ports occuring everyday, licenses have to be handed out to EU boats. That is just the way it is. And Brexiteers need to see the clusterfuck for what it was. Brexit was a scam and none of the promises the Leave Campaign gave us, from NHS funding to trade deals, Northern Ireland and sovereignty came to light. We are weaker for Brexit and only Covid has masked just what a f**k up it really was.

[HallowedBrexit]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1550434/brexit-live-news-boris-johnson-fishing-licences-macron-france-eu-news-Liz-Truss

It seems Boris has sold us out on fish. As forum member Streetwalker said, never trust a Tory. It seems Brexit won't be complete until Nigel Farage is in charge of the country