Re: Winston Churchill and crossing the house degenerating to crossing your legs

[T00ts]

Toots and Nick are the typical Tories on here, not Thomas, he has never tried to manipulate anyone or use psychological bullying like the Westminster party.

Gosh I have never been called typical anything before!   

[cromwell]

They have turned away from , privatisation. You continue to spin.  Privatisation has not worked . Your posts are out of date. One minute you criticise them  for taking the national line of , tendering to private enterprise. The next you criticise them for taking them back to public ownership. As ever wanting it both ways. Typical Tory.

learly you don't know him at all.

[Sheepy]

They have turned away from , privatisation. You continue to spin.  Privatisation has not worked . Your posts are out of date. One minute you criticise them  for taking the national line of , tendering to private enterprise. The next you criticise them for taking them back to public ownership. As ever wanting it both ways. Typical Tory.

Toots and Nick are the typical Tories on here, not Thomas, he has never tried to manipulate anyone or use psychological bullying like the Westminster party. 

[Good old]

Labour in wales arent "nationalising " because they have all of a sudden they have found socialism and decided to take the railways back into public ownership.

Labour having been enthusiastic cheerleaders for profit before passengers  and rail privatisation , they initially gave Keolis the franchise 3 half years ago as i pointed out in my earlier link.

The reason the devolved rail system in wales is coming back under public ownership ( for the minute) is as Labours deputy transport minisnter lee waters said...

Deputy Transport Minister Lee Waters said: "The whole business model collapsed in the face of Covid because the revenue was not coming in and Keolis in effect were not prepared to shoulder their share of the pain."

Asked about the long-term costs of propping up the network, he said: "It depends on Covid. We don't know."


Labour havent turned away from privatisation. They have been forced to deal with the collapse of the rail franchise because of drakefords totalitarian covid measures.

You are another one who cannot read his own links , not to mention the pure utter horshit you spin on this forum about untrustworthy labour every day.

They have turned away from , privatisation. You continue to spin.  Privatisation has not worked . Your posts are out of date. One minute you criticise them  for taking the national line of , tendering to private enterprise. The next you criticise them for taking them back to public ownership. As ever wanting it both ways. Typical Tory.

[Thomas]

As ever you are out of date. The BBC lead I gave you brings you up to date , the Welsh, are nationalising.
All you do with your out of date examples is make the case for nationalisation.  And low and behold from Oct 2020 that's what the Welsh do.

Labour in wales arent "nationalising " because they have all of a sudden they have found socialism and decided to take the railways back into public ownership.

Labour having been enthusiastic cheerleaders for profit before passengers  and rail privatisation , they initially gave Keolis the franchise 3 half years ago as i pointed out in my earlier link.

The reason the devolved rail system in wales is coming back under public ownership ( for the minute) is as Labours deputy transport minisnter lee waters said...

Deputy Transport Minister Lee Waters said: "The whole business model collapsed in the face of Covid because the revenue was not coming in and Keolis in effect were not prepared to shoulder their share of the pain."

Asked about the long-term costs of propping up the network, he said: "It depends on Covid. We don't know."


Labour havent turned away from privatisation. They have been forced to deal with the collapse of the rail franchise because of drakefords totalitarian covid measures.

You are another one who cannot read his own links , not to mention the pure utter horshit you spin on this forum about untrustworthy labour every day.

[Good old]

labour try to make it work?

It was only a few years ago after years of failing rail privatisation that labour put welsh railways back out to private tender.

Talk about the champagne socialsits doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

As ever you are out of date. The BBC lead I gave you brings you up to date , the Welsh, are nationalising.
All you do with your out of date examples is make the case for nationalisation.  And low and behold from Oct 2020 that's what the Welsh do.

[Thomas]

the Labour Party try to make it actually work. The railways will never work unless you first accept what it costs to make them work, if privatisation can not give a class service we shouldn't be looking there for it.

labour try to make it work?

It was only a few years ago after years of failing rail privatisation that labour put welsh railways back out to private tender.

Talk about the champagne socialsits doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

[Good old]

so can we trust labour with things like the railways?





standard labour party bleat about tory bad. ...and over to labour run wales.........







Despite Labour having spent years furiously and constantly demanding that Scottish railways be taken back into the public sector – something which wasn't legally possible at the time – and complaining that the service was run by Dutch (public-sector) firm Abellio, the Labour administration in the Welsh Assembly was last year given control of rail franchising and promptly awarded the contract to two private-sector companies from France and Spain.

So we'd understand it if readers were therefore somewhat sceptical about Labour's promises. Having done absolutely nothing to either renationalise the railways or even allow public-sector operators to bid for them during 13 years of power at Westminster, and having done nothing about it when given the power in Wales just months ago, the party's ability to talk a good socialist game appears rather light on supporting actions.

Still, we have to give Labour some credit for using a scratchcard as the delivery vehicle for their message – after all, people are already used to gambling on those with the promise of extravagant rewards, but then getting nothing back.

Well it's not as if they are not doing anything about it is it? More up to date from the BBC gives the story as it is now. As the Tories down there bleat about cost, the Labour Party try to make it actually work. The railways will never work unless you first accept what it costs to make them work, if privatisation can not give a class service we shouldn't be looking there for it. 


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54635421

[Thomas]

This all sounds good and plausible , but if the political will is not there to do it ,and do it with nothing else in mind than creating a first class working situation. Then it will not be made better. The Tories just do not have that attitude toward the problem.
You only have to look to the railways to know ,that if the people running the show don't do it completely for the production of a first class affordable service then it never will be that.
In the case of the railways ours are outclassed all over Europe, The way it's going it will not be long and the same will apply to the NHS.

so can we trust labour with things like the railways?





standard labour party bleat about tory bad. ...and over to labour run wales.........







Despite Labour having spent years furiously and constantly demanding that Scottish railways be taken back into the public sector – something which wasn't legally possible at the time – and complaining that the service was run by Dutch (public-sector) firm Abellio, the Labour administration in the Welsh Assembly was last year given control of rail franchising and promptly awarded the contract to two private-sector companies from France and Spain.

So we'd understand it if readers were therefore somewhat sceptical about Labour's promises. Having done absolutely nothing to either renationalise the railways or even allow public-sector operators to bid for them during 13 years of power at Westminster, and having done nothing about it when given the power in Wales just months ago, the party's ability to talk a good socialist game appears rather light on supporting actions.

Still, we have to give Labour some credit for using a scratchcard as the delivery vehicle for their message – after all, people are already used to gambling on those with the promise of extravagant rewards, but then getting nothing back.

[Good old]

Absolutely. In answer to a recent comment. Government cannot control the NHS that has been proved for decades so I would no longer expect any real improvement through current channels. It needs major overhaul and someone with the guts to take it on. So far that has been missing. NHS management is really flawed and a culture of waste has been allowed for too long. As said before it is too big to manage efficiently.

This all sounds good and plausible , but if the political will is not there to do it ,and do it with nothing else in mind than creating a first class working situation. Then it will not be made better. The Tories just do not have that attitude toward the problem.
You only have to look to the railways to know ,that if the people running the show don't do it completely for the production of a first class affordable service then it never will be that.
In the case of the railways ours are outclassed all over Europe, The way it's going it will not be long and the same will apply to the NHS.

[T00ts]

Are you trying to suggest that Smurf is no gentleman?

It is possible to work certain things out though. The NHS has been in existence since 1948. Anyone who can remember having to pay for a doctor must have been old enough to have done so before 1948. So we can assume someone born no later than the 1920s, unless they are referring to childhood memories of their parents having to pay, in which case we are likely talking about the 1930s, or very early 40s at the latest. Which pretty much means 80+. Now I have not asked of course. . But in figuring this out so publicly perhaps my conduct is less than gentlemanly? 

Absolutely. In answer to a recent comment. Government cannot control the NHS that has been proved for decades so I would no longer expect any real improvement through current channels. It needs major overhaul and someone with the guts to take it on. So far that has been missing. NHS management is really flawed and a culture of waste has been allowed for too long. As said before it is too big to manage efficiently. 

[srb7677]

Anyway, back to the subject of the German assumption that with France defeated the war was as good as won.

For many months after the fall of France, many Germans continued to believe, and to insist, that this was so. Even after the Luftwaffe had failed to prevail in the skies over Britain, and the tentative German plan to invade Britain - Operation Sealion - had been cancelled - most Germans continued to believe the war was all but won.

Even as late as November 1940 the Germans were still insisting that this was so. In that month the Soviet foreign minister - Molotov - was in Berlin having talks first with Hitler and then with the German foreign minister von Ribbentrop. In the midst of discussions with the latter, both Molotov and von Ribbentrop had to retire into a shelter during a British bomber raid.

Whilst there von Ribbentrop assured Molotov that the British were already defeated. At which point Molotov pointedly asked why they were sitting in a bomb shelter, and whose bombs were it that were falling outside.

[srb7677]

No gentlemen would ask a lady her age.

Are you trying to suggest that Smurf is no gentleman?

It is possible to work certain things out though. The NHS has been in existence since 1948. Anyone who can remember having to pay for a doctor must have been old enough to have done so before 1948. So we can assume someone born no later than the 1920s, unless they are referring to childhood memories of their parents having to pay, in which case we are likely talking about the 1930s, or very early 40s at the latest. Which pretty much means 80+. Now I have not asked of course. . But in figuring this out so publicly perhaps my conduct is less than gentlemanly? 

[T00ts]

I am 73 you must be lot older than me.

No gentlemen would ask a lady her age.  

[papasmurf]

The NHS was great when it started. I remember when we paid the GP per visit. 

I am 73 you must be lot older than me.