Re: Winston Churchill and crossing the house degenerating to crossing your legs

[Good old]

I find it interesting that the current Conservative Government are being blamed for their largely Leftie direction - high taxes, high dependency etc yet it still isn't enough for the left. It is the Left's Christmas and birthday wish all rolled into one for most of the country to fail economically, educationally in sickness and health so that they can once again spend money like no other and leave the coffers empty.

The right of that party are never satisfied. Most of its so far just talk ,but where anything happens it's no more than replacing some of what was taken in austerity, no money tree times.
The coffers were never empty, another Tory lie. If you think they were empty then what do you think now ? Some £1.2 trillion borrowed later. Can't criticise them for over spending because by and large they don't spend, not on the things that hold the country together that is.
That's why they are now wanting a Pat on the back for recruiting enough Police ,nurses,doctors, to get numbers back to 2010 levels.  No mention of the armed forces , or correcting the stand still economics forced on local councils.  And all the time they think things are hunky dorey because their banking pals have retrieved every last penny they spunked in 2008 and now sit on more reserves than at any time in there histories.

[T00ts]

You would have to say that right now . Wouldn't you. The alternative is someone that would lie about what he had for dinner. There are no porkies, the railways are shit. But just flicking a switch after all these years of the situation becoming more and more complicated, is not going to happen over night. The difference one party will try harder than the other to make it happen. One just will not , and we know who.
The Labour Party doesn't claim to be extreme left, so if that disappoints the extreme left , well what a surprise.
It's a case of push the door , not knock it down. And until we as a nation are walking around with most having  the arse out of our trousers that's how the majority of people who can be bothered to vote will see it.

I find it interesting that the current Conservative Government are being blamed for their largely Leftie direction - high taxes, high dependency etc yet it still isn't enough for the left. It is the Left's Christmas and birthday wish all rolled into one for most of the country to fail economically, educationally in sickness and health so that they can once again spend money like no other and leave the coffers empty.

[Good old]

caught out telling porkie pies yet again , like your heros in labour.

No one can trust a thing the labour party and their minions like you say on anything.

You would have to say that right now . Wouldn't you. The alternative is someone that would lie about what he had for dinner. There are no porkies, the railways are shit. But just flicking a switch after all these years of the situation becoming more and more complicated, is not going to happen over night. The difference one party will try harder than the other to make it happen. One just will not , and we know who.
The Labour Party doesn't claim to be extreme left, so if that disappoints the extreme left , well what a surprise.
It's a case of push the door , not knock it down. And until we as a nation are walking around with most having  the arse out of our trousers that's how the majority of people who can be bothered to vote will see it. 

[Thomas]

At this moment the Welsh have turned from privatisation . It's common knowledge given the right circumstances so would the national party. So stop spinning

They have , but not because of firm policy commitment or any wish to. Simpy down to having their hands forced , same as the tories in england did with south west trains and the northern rail franchise.

Red tory blue tory twin cheek of same arse. Let no left winger be fooled into voting labour.

[Thomas]

You put whatever skin on you like. I'm not trying to be anything more than a political punter, not a politician. I'm no more out of my depth than you . Because there are no definitive answers, only opinions.

caught out telling porkie pies yet again , like your heros in labour.

No one can trust a thing the labour party and their minions like you say on anything.

[Good old]

this is a clear example of the nonsense you talk.

Above you make a bleating excuse as to why labour might not be commited to nationalisation , yet earlier , you said this to me...



evasive withthe truth , ambiguous on detail , refusing to offer up policy while at the same time both telling us you have turned away from privatisation and may be for privatisation.

Howling.

If you think you are going to get into power with lies and smoke and mirrors you are even more deluded than i thought.

~Eventually  , labour are going to have to offer up concrete proposals to the electorate in a manifesto , and when they do , you are toast.

At this moment the Welsh have turned from privatisation . It's common knowledge given the right circumstances so would the national party. So stop spinning 

[Thomas]

I know what he is. I don't have to share what that is. But as he likes to act the part of the man in the coat of many colours. I pull him where ever he parks his bus at that moment.

we all know what you and keir starmer are You will say and do anything to gain power , and then betray those who put you there.

on the subject of nationalisation and how no true left winger can trust starmer on the issue...

Furious left-wingers accuse Keir Starmer of breaking vow to nationalise Big Six energy firms as Labour leader says he is only looking at options for 'common ownership'

Sir Keir was accused of 'swindling' his way to the Labour leadership after he ruled out taking the main suppliers into full public ownership.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10030317/Furious-left-wingers-accuse-Keir-Starmer-breaking-nationalisation-vow.html

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-conference-sir-keir-starmer-rules-out-nationalising-big-energy-firms-if-he-becomes-prime-minister-12418566

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/26/starmer-labour-would-not-nationalise-big-six-energy-firms

[Good old]

you need to drag yourself and your party into the twenty first century instead of sounding off twentieth century labour party soundbites about anyone not supporting them being a tory.

its laughable , and it shows how out of depth you are in the modern political world.

You put whatever skin on you like. I'm not trying to be anything more than a political punter, not a politician. I'm no more out of my depth than you . Because there are no definitive answers, only opinions.

[Thomas]

It makes the point that Labour know privatisation is not the best way of running our railways if it is a case of quality of service at affordable rates for the user.  In the case of the Welsh, it can not be a full commitment to the future as public ownership across the board and long term .

this is a clear example of the nonsense you talk.

Above you make a bleating excuse as to why labour might not be commited to nationalisation , yet earlier , you said this to me...

They have turned away from , privatisation.

evasive withthe truth , ambiguous on detail , refusing to offer up policy while at the same time both telling us you have turned away from privatisation and may be for privatisation.

Howling.

If you think you are going to get into power with lies and smoke and mirrors you are even more deluded than i thought.

~Eventually  , labour are going to have to offer up concrete proposals to the electorate in a manifesto , and when they do , you are toast.

[Good old]

I really wish you would stop being so dishonest good old.

In your own link further back in the thread , labours deputy transport minister confirms taking welsh railways into public ownership is a short term measure due to covid , and that he doesnt know if it will become medium to long term policy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54635421


Read the part of the article fifrth from bottom where it says....."what is happening " , and to quote labours transport minister..So no labour havent turned away from privatisation.

Many including former labour member on this forum srb steve have pointed out repeatedly starmer has backtracked on many of his personal pledges to get elected , including privatisation.

Many articles point out the same .....

Rail renationalisation shunted off Labour's agenda?

Starmer's Labour seems to think a party that promises little is more admired, writes SOLOMON HUGHES

WILL rail renationalisation survive Keir Starmer's cull of commitments? Or will it be shunted into the sidings and forgotten about?

Uncertain messaging from the top at Labour's recent conference suggests the party is considering not taking back control of trains after all.

And it is a spirit well in evidence at party conference. Starmer's slimy insistence on abandoning nationalisation of energy firms was one such sacrifice. I think an abandonment of rail nationalisation might be coming down the tracks as well.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/rail-renationalisation-shunted-labours-agenda

It makes the point that Labour know privatisation is not the best way of running our railways if it is a case of quality of service at affordable rates for the user.  In the case of the Welsh, it can not be a full commitment to the future as public ownership across the board and long term . Would mean drastic rethinking of present financial commitments.
This to a larger degree will apply to a future Labour government.  The country is already up to its neck in borrowing. So the huge financial commitment needed to re nationalise the railways may well not be an immediate possibility. But that does not stop it being needed, or a commitment when possible.
Labour don't really support privatised railways, and their extortionate fairs, they are like the rest of use, stuck with them. Certainly for the time being. We don't want the Tories telling the people to think Labour have broke the bank again, do we. Even at the expense of a worthwhile rail system as good as the rest of Europe, do we?

[Thomas]

Thomas, has his moments. as a Tory, But then he can change his skin to cope with every sentence .

you need to drag yourself and your party into the twenty first century instead of sounding off twentieth century labour party soundbites about anyone not supporting them being a tory.

its laughable , and it shows how out of depth you are in the modern political world.

[Thomas]

They have turned away from , privatisation. You continue to spin.  Privatisation has not worked . Your posts are out of date. One minute you criticise them  for taking the national line of , tendering to private enterprise. The next you criticise them for taking them back to public ownership. As ever wanting it both ways. Typical Tory.

I really wish you would stop being so dishonest good old.

In your own link further back in the thread , labours deputy transport minister confirms taking welsh railways into public ownership is a short term measure due to covid , and that he doesnt know if it will become medium to long term policy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54635421


Read the part of the article fifrth from bottom where it says....."what is happening " , and to quote labours transport minister..

Deputy Transport Minister Lee Waters said: "The whole business model collapsed in the face of Covid because the revenue was not coming in and Keolis in effect were not prepared to shoulder their share of the pain."

Asked about the long-term costs of propping up the network, he said: "It depends on Covid. We don't know."

So no labour havent turned away from privatisation.

Many including former labour member on this forum srb steve have pointed out repeatedly starmer has backtracked on many of his personal pledges to get elected , including privatisation.

Many articles point out the same .....

Rail renationalisation shunted off Labour's agenda?

Starmer's Labour seems to think a party that promises little is more admired, writes SOLOMON HUGHES

WILL rail renationalisation survive Keir Starmer's cull of commitments? Or will it be shunted into the sidings and forgotten about?

Uncertain messaging from the top at Labour's recent conference suggests the party is considering not taking back control of trains after all.

And it is a spirit well in evidence at party conference. Starmer's slimy insistence on abandoning nationalisation of energy firms was one such sacrifice. I think an abandonment of rail nationalisation might be coming down the tracks as well.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/rail-renationalisation-shunted-labours-agenda

[Good old]

Toots and Nick are the typical Tories on here, not Thomas, he has never tried to manipulate anyone or use psychological bullying like the Westminster party.

Thomas, has his moments. as a Tory, But then he can change his skin to cope with every sentence .

[Good old]

learly you don't know him at all.

I know what he is. I don't have to share what that is. But as he likes to act the part of the man in the coat of many colours. I pull him where ever he parks his bus at that moment.

[Borchester]

40 years of constant government meddling and creeping privatisation have clearly done it no good. So your solution is a massive dose of more of the same?

Actually, the problem has been 80 years of canonisation. As has been said on numerous occasions, when the Chinese Pox first became fashionable, we were all urged to fight for the NHS and save patients. Most businesses are thinking of themselves first, but they are rarely as blatant as the NHS