Is anyone surprised? Ukraine invaded

[B0ycey]

Not a ground offensive,doesn't look that way to me.

I talking about hand to hand combat. They have entered the Dombas for "peacekeeping" duties, they haven't supported the rebels military. But they are clearly shutting down Ukraines air defence and targeting their ability to respond. That is in the sense of protecting Donatsk and Luhansk "sovereignty" I would have thought. But even so I am not saying that will remain the case indefinitely, but what I am saying is that until we engage with Russia correctly and address their security concerns, Russia is likely to escalate tensions to force our hand I guess.

[T00ts]

We have Brussels with NATO pushing their unity, Boris up at 4am, Biden follows soon in front of cameras telling the world how they will do everything in their power. When are they going to stop talking and act. I am sick of seeing and listening to these ineffective leaders polishing their images on the world stage while people are dying by an unwarranted attack by a powerful country claiming that they are protecting themselves. 

[HDQQ]

I couple of weeks ago I might have been surprised if Russia were to invade Ukraine. But after Russian forces were "invited" into 2 eastern Ukraine provinces I'm no longer surprised.

The next questions are:  Would anyone be surprised if China invades Taiwan now?  If they do invade Taiwan would it be pure coincidence?

[B0ycey]

That's seems very naive to me. Putin has threatened the rest of the World if anyone intervenes while those complacent believed him that he would not invade and then that he would only peace keep in those areas where there were separatists. You need to smell the coffee.

It isn't really naïve T00ts. Russia has spelt out their red lines two months ago and as of yet we haven't engaged with them on a level playing field so saying we should do that isn't giving in but pointing out that diplomacy hasn't really happened yet. Also maintaining hostile land is difficult. The US couldn't do it with Afghanistan, Russia will struggle with Ukraine. So I doubt Russia is going into a full invasion yet nor will they go into NATO at the same time. But they will clearly land grab Donbass and friendly Ukrainian territory and tie the screw on Zelensky. So really it depends on how much Zelensky wants to lose before he negotiates a different security pact. Because ultimately NATO isn't coming to his aid and our hand is merely sanctions which mean shit. We might as well get use to having no gas and power failures right now and a real cost of living crisis because robust sanctions on them mean robust sanctions on us.

[cromwell]

He won't stop until he is listened to T00ts. At the moment this is still low-key, targeting military targets, crippling Ukraines ability to return fire not a ground offensive. He doesn't care about sanctions given he was already moving his economy East and had given up on diplomacy as they weren't really negotiations but orders of stubbornness. I suspect that this war will be costly for Russia, but in any case this is about security for them and until Zelensky gives up NATO membership we can expect even more land grabs over time and the longer that goes on the weaker his hand becomes. NATO is never coming to the rescue and I suppose we best get use to ridiculous fuel prices now. On the plus for you Brexiteers, at least Refugees won't be going through Belarus any more.

Not a ground offensive,doesn't look that way to me.

[T00ts]

He won't stop until he is listened to T00ts. At the moment this is still low-key, targeting military targets, crippling Ukraines ability to return fire not a ground offensive. He doesn't care about sanctions given he was already moving his economy East and had given up on diplomacy as they weren't really negotiations but orders of stubbornness. I suspect that this war will be costly for Russia, but in any case this is about security for them and until Zelensky gives up NATO membership we can expect even more land grabs over time and the longer that goes on the weaker his hand becomes. NATO is never coming to the rescue and I suppose we best get use to ridiculous fuel prices now. On the plus for you Brexiteers, at least Refugees won't be going through Belarus any more.

That's seems very naive to me. Putin has threatened the rest of the World if anyone intervenes while those complacent believed him that he would not invade and then that he would only peace keep in those areas where there were separatists. You need to smell the coffee. 

[cromwell]

Im not saying it is your take , im saying i agree with him.
Not my take on this either.

I will leave the big bad putin bogeyman intent on world domination for the james bond films.

You arent saying much about yank interference in brexit, or the massive differences you have with continental europe over brexit , yet "if " putin goes off on one we need to "band together?"



As ever cromwell , we are on the other side of the universe from each other.

I will leave you to the bbc take on things.

Are we? did I say world domination? No that's you making things up I never said and going in to James Bond fantasy of your own.

Any differences over brexit are irrelevant,as I said re the EU army it's not needed we have NATO,we do have a way of life it may not be perfect but we need to protect it.

You go off on the bbc all you like it's a script.

[B0ycey]

Having just looked at the headlines it seems Ukraine is being attacked on all sides. Now will anyone realise that Putin won't stop. This has been so easy. China will bail him out if sanctions hit hard, why else did Xi and Putin make a great show at the Olympics. I will be very surprised if this action will satisfy Putin. Too many world leaders have drifted along believing once again the mantra 'peace in our time'.

He won't stop until he is listened to T00ts. At the moment this is still low-key, targeting military targets, crippling Ukraines ability to return fire not a ground offensive. He doesn't care about sanctions given he was already moving his economy East and had given up on diplomacy as they weren't really negotiations but orders of stubbornness. I suspect that this war will be costly for Russia, but in any case this is about security for them and until Zelensky gives up NATO membership we can expect even more land grabs over time and the longer that goes on the weaker his hand becomes. NATO is never coming to the rescue and I suppose we best get use to ridiculous fuel prices now. On the plus for you Brexiteers, at least Refugees won't be going through Belarus any more. 

[Thomas]

You think? Not my take on this.

Im not saying it is your take , im saying i agree with him.

Stuff the west? No if Putin goes off on one only a united response will have a chance of deterrence.

Not my take on this either.

I will leave the big bad putin bogeyman intent on world domination for the james bond films.

You arent saying much about yank interference in brexit, or the massive differences you have with continental europe over brexit , yet "if " putin goes off on one we need to "band together?"



As ever cromwell , we are on the other side of the universe from each other.

I will leave you to the bbc take on things.

[cromwell]

The yanks have been tweaking the russian bear and he has finally reacted , and we are surprised?

The yanks have become increasingly alarmed over recent years of the growing economic power of the chinese , and the vast natural wealth of the russians .

The so called west , meanwhile which has never been a unified front , and merely banded together for a short time historically from the end of the second world war , is now fast coming apart at the seams.

Dont forget , you brexiters are getting the blame in part for that for leaving the EU , as well as us scots nats for wanting to break up the yanks poodle the uk.

Stuff the west.

As deppitydawg said on here the other day , putin isnt the wests problem , our enemies are within.

You think? Not my take on this.
Stuff the west? No if Putin goes off on one only a united response will have a chance of deterrence.

[Thomas]

Who threatened to put nukes in Ukraine?
Was it the warmongers across the Atlantic? Didn't hear any of it in the UK meeja. Is it true?
Never poke a Bear.

American willaim polk , who served in the kennedy government as part of the cuban crises management team , suggested about a decade ago that what NATO was doing in eastern europe was a sort of cuban missle crises in reverse.

[Barry]

He has taken the invitation after threatening him with putting nukes on Ukrainian soil, now what?

Who threatened to put nukes in Ukraine?
Was it the warmongers across the Atlantic? Didn't hear any of it in the UK meeja. Is it true?
Never poke a Bear.

[Thomas]

Having just looked at the headlines it seems Ukraine is being attacked on all sides. Now will anyone realise that Putin won't stop. This has been so easy. China will bail him out if sanctions hit hard, why else did Xi and Putin make a great show at the Olympics. I will be very surprised if this action will satisfy Putin. Too many world leaders have drifted along believing once again the mantra 'peace in our time'.

The yanks have been tweaking the russian bear and he has finally reacted , and we are surprised?

The yanks have become increasingly alarmed over recent years of the growing economic power of the chinese , and the vast natural wealth of the russians .

The so called west , meanwhile which has never been a unified front , and merely banded together for a short time historically from the end of the second world war , is now fast coming apart at the seams.

Dont forget , you brexiters are getting the blame in part for that for leaving the EU , as well as us scots nats for wanting to break up the yanks poodle the uk.

Stuff the west.

As deppitydawg said on here the other day , putin isnt the wests problem , our enemies are within.

[cromwell]

Just watching NATO,obviously lot of nervous statements from eastern states,Turkey calls for Bosphurus be closed to Russian traffic.

[T00ts]

Having just looked at the headlines it seems Ukraine is being attacked on all sides. Now will anyone realise that Putin won't stop. This has been so easy. China will bail him out if sanctions hit hard, why else did Xi and Putin make a great show at the Olympics. I will be very surprised if this action will satisfy Putin. Too many world leaders have drifted along believing once again the mantra 'peace in our time'.