Is anyone surprised? Ukraine invaded

[Thomas]

Just let Putin, get on with it is your mantra.

Whats labours mantra?

Labour is accused of 'rank hypocrisy' for calling on the Tories to return £2million in Russian-linked donations but refusing to do the same

• Labour accused of 'hypocrisy' for not saying if Russia-linked £1m will be returned
• It received it from hedge fund tycoon with business connections with Russia
• Labour claimed such donors gave Tories £1.93m since Boris Johnson became PM
• But Tory MP Alec Shelbrooke has called the party's callout 'rank hypocrisy'

Labour was accused of 'rank hypocrisy' last night for calling on the Tories to return nearly £2 million of Russian-linked donations – but refusing to say if they would do likewise.

Sir Keir Starmer's party was challenged to say why it was not returning part of more than £1million received from a hedge fund tycoon who had business connections with Russia.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10556113/Labour-accused-hypocrisy-calling-Tories-return-2m-Russian-linked-donations.html


Once again, while chasing quick political headlines, Labour have no idea where much of their own money or funding comes from.

[cromwell]

Peace talks? Let's hope they go ahead and this lunacy stops.

[Thomas]

surprise surprise ...


Russia Sanctions Over Ukraine Largely Spare Energy Sector, Vital to Europe

Exemptions let Europe keep buying Russian gas and oil, moderating prices while maintaining a major revenue stream for Moscow

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-sanctions-over-ukraine-largely-spare-energy-sector-vital-to-europe-11645970890?mod=e2tw

[Thomas]

Oh dear if this is true then time for cool heads i think.



President Vladimir Putin has ordered Russian nuclear deterrent forces on alert amid tensions with the West over his invasion of Ukraine.

President Vladimir Putin has ordered Russian nuclear deterrent forces on alert amid tensions with the West over his invasion of Ukraine.
Speaking at a meeting with his top officials, Mr Putin asserted that leading Nato powers had made "aggressive statements" along with the West imposing hard-hitting financial sanctions against Russia, including the president himself.
Mr Putin ordered the Russian defence minister and the chief of the military's General Staff to put the nuclear deterrent forces in a "special regime of combat duty".
This is a breaking story. More to follow.


https://www.gbnews.uk/news/vladimir-putin-orders-russian-nuclear-deterrent-forces-on-alert-amid-tensions-with-the-west-over-ukraine-invasion/235773

[Thomas]

No I don't say any of that , that is how you want to interpret what I say. As you do with almost every one you confer with. And worse still is you never ever have any actual answer or actual option to the obvious frailties in the worlds political situation which you are so good at trying to use as an excuse for doing nothing .
Just let Putin, get on with it is your mantra. You don't want to here anything unless it plugs into your your idea of insight. Which is actually misguided fantasy.

No good old , you arent getting away with that pish with me.

Most of us on here are old enough to remember your labour party in charge and the lies that took us to various wars in iraq and afghanistan , which all turned out to be founded on the usual lies , false information and spin.

Here you are again demanding people blindly follow  the war rhetoric , and denouncing those of us who want to know a bit more about things as appeasers and sympathisers.

Lets be clear here , i categorically say putin should get out of ukraine. I also say there is more to this than what the msm and western political elite headed by a senile old man and his warmongering party are saying.

I also point out , im no political friend of you , or your countries elite. Make no fackin mistake about that.

I also point out banging the war drum isnt going to make your beloved labour party  and those in it who are bankrolled hypocritcally by the russian rouble any more electable.

[Good old]

Ah , but gerry tells me worldwide inflation is all to do with brexit.

Good old tells me labours peter mandelson taking dirty russin money is a force for good  and reconciliation, and putin is the bad guy , and america our bestest bestest friends.

No I don't say any of that , that is how you want to interpret what I say. As you do with almost every one you confer with. And worse still is you never ever have any actual answer or actual option to the obvious frailties in the worlds political situation which you are so good at trying to use as an excuse for doing nothing .
Just let Putin, get on with it is your mantra. You don't want to here anything unless it plugs into your your idea of insight. Which is actually misguided fantasy. 

[Thomas]

Zelenskiy urges all foreign citizens to join in Ukraine war against Russia.

Saw that sheepy , also see liz truss was saying uk citizens could go over to fight for ukraine?

Talk about stirring the pot even more.

[Sheepy]

Ah , but gerry tells me worldwide inflation is all to do with brexit.

Good old tells me labours peter mandelson taking dirty russin money is a force for good  and reconciliation, and putin is the bad guy , and america our bestest bestest friends.

Here is why you should never listen to rank amateurs thinking they have political insight then, or you will end up with a world war as nations lose control and hide behind it.

It's so easy to grow these 24 foods at home

Josh Gad: 'I don't think we did justice to what a gay character in a Disney film...

LIVE – Updated at 11:31





Oil terminal and gas pipeline on fire after reported attacks; Zelenskiy urges all foreign citizens to join in Ukraine war against Russia.

[Thomas]

Which has once again boiled over, no mention of the US inflation rate or the German one or ours come to that.

Ah , but gerry tells me worldwide inflation is all to do with brexit.

Good old tells me labours peter mandelson taking dirty russin money is a force for good  and reconciliation, and putin is the bad guy , and america our bestest bestest friends.

[Sheepy]

I know you do. Thats international politics , no good or bad guys , just countires and thier elites agendas

Which has once again boiled over, no mention of the US inflation rate or the German one or ours come to that.

[Thomas]

Putin tarnishes everyone one that has put any trust in him and his corrupt regime. That's obvious .

What like peter mandelson ?

Now he is corrupting another of his peaceful neighbours simply because ,he is afraid that they may find a better way of life in western values , and their experience might seep into Russian society.  If anyone wanted good relations with Russia, they should have been building business bridges and creating a World of mutual trust. As Mandelson , and many others in the west have has done for many years. Your response in general . All as bad as Putin., because they dared to trust he was not a predator, with the same instincts of every major despot Europe has ever known. 

Ive made my repeated point many a time putin is wrong , but there are wider issues at play , not least american interference.

You have no insight to offer on this good old , if i wanted to listen to propaganda and the age old good cop bad cop stick i would listen to the mainstream media.

[Good old]

Now now good old . I can't take all the credit. Starmers right hand man mandelson is more in putins back pocket than i , a mere internet pleb is. How much dirty russian money has peter the europhile actually pocketed?

Putin tarnishes everyone one that has put any trust in him and his corrupt regime. That's obvious . 
Now he is corrupting another of his peaceful neighbours simply because ,he is afraid that they may find a better way of life in western values , and their experience might seep into Russian society.  If anyone wanted good relations with Russia, they should have been building business bridges and creating a World of mutual trust. As Mandelson , and many others in the west have has done for many years. Your response in general . All as bad as Putin., because they dared to trust he was not a predator, with the same instincts of every major despot Europe has ever known. 

[Thomas]

There is no doubt Russia is the aggressor in this conflict. This much was strenuously underlined by the Russian-vetoed 11-to-1 vote (PR China, United Arab Emirates, and India abstaining) on the US-drafted UN Security Council draft resolution which would have denounced Russia's actions. Notwithstanding the veto, this vote does demonstrate how isolated Mr Putin is in the courts of public and international opinion. This is an unnecessary act of aggression which will no doubt result in a catastrophic loss of life in Ukraine — both of military personnel and civilians — and which has already ended the deteriorating peace in Europe (excepting the Balkans of course) that has been to a greater or lesser degree maintained since 1945.

It is simply not the case, however, that Putin alone is to blame for this war. According to the prevailing western media narrative, Vladimir Putin is mentally unhinged; a madman bent on war and destruction — another Adolf Hitler ready to lay waste to the world. Yet, no one worth listening to on Putin actually accepts this lazy and obviously propagandistic caricature.

https://jeggit.medium.com/understanding-the-ukrainian-conflict-e2d935d4f14

I thought this again was another fairly balanced and resonable article on the ukraine conflict , and the wider politics at play. Makes the point that while putin is in the wrong , again and again we hear the same thing the USA has led on ukraine with disasterous results for the people of the country.

[Thomas]

By that reasoning , Putins neighbours should have no right to maintain an armed defensive system .

Eh? No the reasoning is this is sort of the cuban missle crises in reverse as many have said,  not your twisted take on events good old.

If ireland was still part of the uk , and russia was covertly in arming and funding irish rebels based in dublin , then im pretty damn sure the uk would react similarly to putin.

[Good old]

Certainly is cromwell. After arming and funding the ukrainians , the "west" is now abandoning the ukrainians to their fate it seems to me.

The uk is being mocked ( and other nations) for not lifting restrictions and visa allowances for ukrainian refugees to allow them to escape to the uk .

Another american proxy war with russia  , and europe is yet again being left to clear up the yank  mess.

By that reasoning , Putins neighbours should have no right to maintain an armed defensive system . But Putin can not just maintain a defensive system, but as he proves a substantial offensive system.
 I agree with anyone that says all war is bad , we all have blood on our hands politically that is. All political killing is murder. But I also think everyone of us should be able to chose if pushed to do so , the value of our own existence as against the existence of those that threaten our own. This is not a proxy war for the west . This is an unwanted intrusion on the peace of all Europe.