Breaking. Met Police launches investigation into Downing Street parties,

[Sheepy]

The EU market also happens to be our largest international trade market. Perhaps it is your island mentality. But do you think we can prosper on our own?

Now, now, no need to be nasty, the EU market is still a scam and with the German economy on the brink covered by covid things are not so rosy in the EU market garden. 

[B0ycey]

That old Chestnut, the EU market, the EU market is a scam.

The EU market also happens to be our largest international trade market. Perhaps it is your island mentality. But do you think we can prosper on our own?

[Sheepy]

Perhaps that was your point but my point was that if the UK wants the benefits of being in the EU market and to retain as much of our international markets as possible along with the jobs and the sectors that rely on that market, then a degree of alignment is needed. You think that is EU membership through the backdoor. Perhaps you should ask Switzerland, Norway and Turkey on that. I am just trying to explain how international agreements work in practice. We were never going to "break free" in the way the Brexiteers sold the lie to us given economic prosperity relies on on cooperation. I would suggest you read up on Libertarianism if you want the mechanics of a free market. Perhaps Road to Selfdom on central planning and why bigger markets with less red tape increase economic prosperity. The fish thread is basically why Frost gave in. We may have the fish, but we don't have the market. And that is the invisible hand in motion. And that is laymen in saying, no we aren't going back into the EU. But at the same time we still have to work with the EU due to economic need unless you want North Korean trade arrangements.

That old Chestnut, the EU market, the EU market is a scam. 

[B0ycey]

im adressing the fact you said no political leader would reverse brexit , and replying they dont need to to take the uk back in.

Perhaps that was your point but my point was that if the UK wants the benefits of being in the EU market and to retain as much of our international markets as possible along with the jobs and the sectors that rely on that market, then a degree of alignment is needed. You think that is EU membership through the backdoor. Perhaps you should ask Switzerland, Norway and Turkey on that. I am just trying to explain how international agreements work in practice. We were never going to "break free" in the way the Brexiteers sold the lie to us given economic prosperity relies on on cooperation. I would suggest you read up on Libertarianism if you want the mechanics of a free market. Perhaps Road to Selfdom on central planning and why bigger markets with less red tape increase economic prosperity. The fish thread is basically why Frost gave in. We may have the fish, but we don't have the market. And that is the invisible hand in motion. And that is laymen in saying, no we aren't going back into the EU. But at the same time we still have to work with the EU due to economic need unless you want North Korean trade arrangements.

[Thomas]

 The leave campaign was based on lies and unicorns.

yawn double fackin yawn. How many time are we going to hear the same rubbish that has been spouted for the last 7 years. Its not original , its not a compelling arguement.

There is a number of reasons why people voted leave and not all of them are compatible. Most of the reasons even rely on decisions the EU make.  The whole BS that we could have our cake and eat it was just that. BS. So we aren't half in or half out. We made a deal that was mutually beneficial. And that is what being sovereign means. Compromise to excess other global markets. Was people expecting something different? Well if they did then they are gullible. The fishing thread just highlights what a clusterfuck it was. We sell our fish to the EU and people were just expecting that would continue as if we were in the free market without the French boats. If that isn't unicorns and cake eating, nothing i

well , why dont you tell brexiters that ? Why tell me?

To summarise , you stupid brexiters ( according to remainers like boycey) havent listened to us for the last 7 years , why wont you listen to us now?

listening to this patronising drivel honestly does nothing for you or your politics boycey.

Its like listening to a sneering entitled middle class cardboard snob.

[papasmurf]

He is probably as much a Brexiteer as you will find within the conservative party .  Indeed was on the list back in 2014 of possible UKIP recruits along with the likes of Carswell and Reckless . Also one of the seats the Brexit Party didn't stand in being regarded as being in  safe Eurosceptic  hands

What makes you think he is not a supporter of Brexit ?

Steve Baker is strange to say the least, I know him via his father. He appears to have some very dodgy bedfellows, and knowing his background why he is a Tory is frankly a puzzle.

[Thomas]

My post wasn't really aimed at you Thomas, but what you wrote.

No boycey , that is a complete cop out.

I addressed the fact there are many ways a political party in the uk could tie the uk to eu membership without actually joining the eu officially , and you started waffling on remain tropes we have heard ad nauseum.

You need to read what im writing not what you think im writing , and address it.

heres what you initially wrote...

The idea Brexit hinges on Boris, is ignoring membership would require application. Besides, all potential leadership contenders, none would reverse Brexit. And that is laymen in saying whether Boris jumps, is pushed, or whatever, the future of Brexit is safe.

The best course of action for rejoining is voting and electing a political party who campaigns for EU membership, not expecting the Tory Brexit Party to see the light.



to which i responded...

boycey dont be so naive. There are many ways to rejoin the EU that dont require official application to rejoin or someone standing on a platform to hold another referendum.


Starmer could get into power ( or a remain tory) who could behind the scenes tie the uk in knots over every eu rule and law that we would effectively be members in all but name only and not a single vote would be needed in a referendum.

Then , years down the line , they could make it all offical when the time was right.




im adressing the fact you said no political leader would reverse brexit , and replying they dont need to to take the uk back in.

[B0ycey]

Boycey. I. Voted. Remain. How many more times do i need to hear a lecture about brexit from people who arent listening to what is being said?

My post wasn't really aimed at you Thomas, but what you wrote. The leave campaign was based on lies and unicorns. There is a number of reasons why people voted leave and not all of them are compatible. Most of the reasons even rely on decisions the EU make.  The whole BS that we could have our cake and eat it was just that. BS. So we aren't half in or half out. We made a deal that was mutually beneficial. And that is what being sovereign means. Compromise to excess other global markets. Was people expecting something different? Well if they did then they are gullible. The fishing thread just highlights what a clusterfuck it was. We sell our fish to the EU and people were just expecting that would continue as if we were in the free market without the French boats. If that isn't unicorns and cake eating, nothing is.

[Streetwalker]

Steve Baker is not a Brexiteer. (He a somewhat worrying person to be in Parliament.)

He is probably as much a Brexiteer as you will find within the conservative party .  Indeed was on the list back in 2014 of possible UKIP recruits along with the likes of Carswell and Reckless . Also one of the seats the Brexit Party didn't stand in being regarded as being in  safe Eurosceptic  hands 

What makes you think he is not a supporter of Brexit ?

[Thomas]

You won't need to worry about Starmer for three years Thomas. And maybe longer if Johnson goes. But I really wanted to respond by saying it is you who is naïve. Brexit was never about sovereignty but handing it back. Depending on how much access we want into the European market will depend on how much our markets need to align. Frost was tied in knots over Ireland, and now Truss is having to woo us out of a signed agreement.

Boycey. I. Voted. Remain. How many more times do i need to hear a lecture about brexit from people who arent listening to what is being said?

[Thomas]

Before the Brussels Bumboys start wanking themselves in delight and into even stronger pairs of spectacles, they might care to note that much of the pressure on Boris is coming from Tory Brexiters. The latest is Andrew Bridgen, who is a bit of a shit but who, unlike Starmer and Co, does at least have the saving grace of not being ashamed of being British.

I suspect that Boris is for the chop and that his successor will be even more hardline, EU wise.

Good luck with that one borkie.

I suspect johnson isnt gone yet because the factions behind the scenes havent drummed up enough support to get their man/woman in place. I have said my piece on johnson , and reiterate to many on here be carefull what you wish for.

You will know better than me the ins and outs of the tory party , but it doesnt look likely to me that any prominent brexiter i have heard of is in the line to replace johnson.??

Andy bridgen gets quite a bit of air time , but is he a prominent figure in the tories? Im not sure , more like one of a number of voices from the far right of the party , whose main claim to fame seems to be continual outspoken criticism of the EU and tory prime ministers.

We will soon see. I suspect this might rumble on till the council elections and then if the tories have a bad time of it , things will then move to oust johnson.

[papasmurf]

Before the Brussels Bumboys start wanking themselves in delight and into even stronger pairs of spectacles, they might care to note that much of the pressure on Boris is coming from Tory Brexiters. 

Steve Baker is not a Brexiteer. (He a somewhat worrying person to be in Parliament.)

[Borchester]

Before the Brussels Bumboys start wanking themselves in delight and into even stronger pairs of spectacles, they might care to note that much of the pressure on Boris is coming from Tory Brexiters. The latest is Andrew Bridgen, who is a bit of a shit but who, unlike Starmer and Co, does at least have the saving grace of not being ashamed of being British.

I suspect that Boris is for the chop and that his successor will be even more hardline, EU wise.

[cromwell]

What's in it for me? Absolutely nothing, except that justice would be done in removing a leader who expected us plebs to stay at home, not see friends and relatives, not visit anyone in hospital while the Tories partied away like students at rag week. I would have preferred Boris stay, but he has blown it. I'm not outraged, I was angry, but I think the time to defend his actions are well gone. He has to go, he knows it and his delaying reminds me of Gordon Brown refusing to quit number 10 when he lost.
I don't care particularly who replaces him. The Tories are no longer my party, in fact, I don't have one. So why should I support a liar, a philanderer, a really amoral man? The man has had his chance and he has thrown it away to be friendly with his mates in the lockdown of his making.

Just about sums it up.

[B0ycey]

boycey dont be so naive. There are many ways to rejoin the EU that dont require official application to rejoin or someone standing on a platform to hold another referendum.

Starmer could get into power ( or a remain tory) who could behind the scenes tie the uk in knots over every eu rule and law that we would effectively be members in all but name only and not a single vote would be needed in a referendum.

Then , years down the line , they could make it all offical when the time was right.

You won't need to worry about Starmer for three years Thomas. And maybe longer if Johnson goes. But I really wanted to respond by saying it is you who is naïve. Brexit was never about sovereignty but handing it back. Depending on how much access we want into the European market will depend on how much our markets need to align. Frost was tied in knots over Ireland, and now Truss is having to woo us out of a signed agreement.