Saving the dogs.

[cromwell]

Cameron, offered us something he didn't have to give, yes Parliament should have told him that the moment it was said. but there you go.
It was a democratic vote, a democratic decision to leave. Fine no problem. What was wrong was to let us believe that our democratic  vote could and would over ride the scrutiny of Parliament. The standards I refer to were the ones upheld in the highest courts in the land. We have a system of democracy , it might not fit with democracy for democracies sake. But that's how it is, not as Cameron, allowed people to think that a simple yes or no could or would be the end of the story.

Not at all Bliar amongst others sold away the supposed primacy of parliament in treaty after treaty without reference to the people though Bliar offered a referendum then reneged.

So the country bit by bit was sold to brussels and Cameron fearful gave a referendum,you and parliament forget it relies on the approval of the people (or should) your and their view of what constitutes democracy is a corruption of the term.

[T00ts]

Cameron, offered us something he didn't have to give, yes Parliament should have told him that the moment it was said. but there you go.
It was a democratic vote, a democratic decision to leave. Fine no problem. What was wrong was to let us believe that our democratic  vote could and would over ride the scrutiny of Parliament. The standards I refer to were the ones upheld in the highest courts in the land. We have a system of democracy , it might not fit with democracy for democracies sake. But that's how it is, not as Cameron, allowed people to think that a simple yes or no could or would be the end of the story.

I'm not sure I can agree with that. Cameron was elected on the firm promise of a Referendum. Others before his had promised the same but he kept it once his arm was twisted. His mistake was that we would vote to stay in. Now it was promised as a binding vote, scrutiny wasn't mentioned as I remember after all as long as we did as we were told it wasn't relevant. As it happens scrutiny was designed to reverse the people's decision and those guilty felt the wrath of the electorate and lost their jobs. That's democracy in action.

[Good old]

So the Dictionary term democracy to you means........give people a choice and a vote,however the supremacy of parliament gives them the right to over ride that by hook or by crook......usually crooked.

Standards,don't make me laugh standards were stuffed long before Cameron appeared but you think all that unimportant when you deem it far enough in the past and if it's labour of course.

Cameron, offered us something he didn't have to give, yes Parliament should have told him that the moment it was said. but there you go.
It was a democratic vote, a democratic decision to leave. Fine no problem. What was wrong was to let us believe that our democratic  vote could and would over ride the scrutiny of Parliament. The standards I refer to were the ones upheld in the highest courts in the land. We have a system of democracy , it might not fit with democracy for democracies sake. But that's how it is, not as Cameron, allowed people to think that a simple yes or no could or would be the end of the story.

[cromwell]

Toots, this is a simple case of standards.in the overall standards  that have been fiddled with  from the moment
Cameron, gave the public to think a referendum could completely over ride the supremacy of Parliament.

So the Dictionary term democracy to you means........give people a choice and a vote,however the supremacy of parliament gives them the right to over ride that by hook or by crook......usually crooked.

Standards,don't make me laugh standards were stuffed long before Cameron appeared but you think all that unimportant when you deem it far enough in the past and if it's labour of course.

[Thomas]

Well, it is fun listening as they all say we are fecked, we have been fecked since the day we were born and they still think the Westminster will save them from the Westminster party. Not in this lifetime so fecked it is.

you know what i say sheepwash?

Feck the supremacy of parliament.

The "supremacy of parliament" seems to be a codeword for labour and conservatives and thier supporters like good old to ride roughshod over the people when it suits.

Its a nonsensical principle , that has no counterpart not only in scottish constitutional law , but is hemmed in by written constitutions in the laws of most democracies and their respective parliaments in the western world. The uk is told "you dont need a written constitution to bind parliament".

Whatever the rights and wrongs of it , regarding brexit as we know ,remainers both in parliament and outside of it trotted this pish out to overturn a democratic referendum result with disasterous but predictable consequences in 2019 , when the adherents were largely shown the door by joe public.

The people stood by their vote that was cast in 2016 , and overrode parliaments supremacy despite good olds bleating to the contrary.

[Sheepy]

...and the advocates of the supremacy of parliament forgot they had to face the wrath and will of the people when trying to overturn democracy.

Well, it is fun listening as they all say we are fecked, we have been fecked since the day we were born and they still think the Westminster will save them from the Westminster party. Not in this lifetime so fecked it is. 

[Thomas]

Cameron, gave the public to think a referendum could completely over ride the supremacy of Parliament.

...and the advocates of the supremacy of parliament forgot they had to face the wrath and will of the people when trying to overturn democracy.

[Thomas]

That aside, this man is setting new standards ,

Is he?

To put thngs into perspective  , boris johnson lied and a bit of cake was eaten.

Tony blair lied , and millions died.

I think johnson has a long way to go befoire he comes anywhere near tony blairs facking shamefull premiership of lies spin death and betrayal.

[srb7677]

See there you again, stop giving your consent to the Westminster party or nothing changes, Starmers lot doesn't need to get in unless you allow it.

It won't be with my support or vote and were it down to me I would never allow it. But the people might under our two party stitch up, and the polls are suggesting right now that this could happen. It is them you need to convince, not me. Starmer's lot will never get my vote or support.

[Borchester]

I am not telling you to vote for anyone Sheepy. I am just explaining what is likely to happen. If people refuse to vote for Johnson due to his partygate actions, what happens is they vote for a lesser evil or not at all. Biden didn't win on his excellent oral ability or policy ambitions. He won because he wasn't Trump. This time last year we were talking about not knowing what Starmer stood for. Today we aren't any wiser. And yet he now has a 10pt lead. Why is that?

Well that is true, but Biden had the advantage Trump was, and is, a graceless son of a bitch who could not keep his mouth shut. Boris is not like that. Plus, he has two more years to cover his tracks. I don't think Starmer comes into it. He is just a dreary bastard who really, really wants to be prime minister and should return to prosecuting GBH cases at Neasden Magistrates Court.

[Good old]

No they don't,but there are levels of wrong doing,Boris is at low cloud level but Bliar is cirrostratus.

Yes there are. But this is a simple case of keeping your eye on the ball. It's fatal to keep moaning about the penalty that you thought Blair had given away. If Boris , has just kicked your goalkeeper in the nuts.
Blair, has paid something of a price for any doubts over his performance. Not enough you would say. But it's immaterial  to the fact that Boris, Is running roughshod over the fabric of the last semblance  of trust the man in the street has in politicians.
OK some say if it keeps a Tory government in Downing Street , that's all that matters.. We have heard that before, usually in some shit heap in South America,or Africa. Third world in other words.

[Sheepy]

No they don't,but there are levels of wrong doing,Boris is at low cloud level but Bliar is cirrostratus.

If anything Thatcher and Blair led the way, the place went mad on power after their reigns of terror. 

[cromwell]

We all know you will get support for that view of things. In simple terms ,two wrongs don't make a right.

No they don't,but there are levels of wrong doing,Boris is at low cloud level but Bliar is cirrostratus.

[Sheepy]

gave the public to think a referendum could completely over ride the supremacy of Parliament.

They might have thought they are supreme beings but as you found out it isn't so, Cameron still thinks he is one of the chosen ones. Who can do with everyone else as he pleases. You might believe you are part of the chosen ones I don't. Cameron and Blair and Boris all believe power is something that puts you above democracy and you it seems. 

[Good old]

I really don't disagree. I never wanted BJ as PM in the first place but aren't we in danger of simply painting the poor man (and he is just a human being after all) as dishonourable as possible just to fulfil a leftie dream? Finish off the Conservatives! Bring them down in a blaze of lies etc etc never to rise again. Be honest - we have a nasty little man who sees himself as King maker and breaker wreaking his promised havoc. We have a more than lack lustre opposition (they just don't know what they really oppose) who are happy once again, just as they did over Brexit, to create havoc for their own ends, while the Nation drops off the concern agenda.
The HofC has not recovered from the debacle that they created during all the Brexit party war. Those not really accountable for the country are just playing games. I am amazed that the current Gov. has managed to do anything over the last couple of years, but I guess that's all forgotten while this current brainless feeding frenzy continues.

Toots, this is a simple case of standards.in the overall standards  that have been fiddled with  from the moment 
Cameron, gave the public to think a referendum could completely over ride the supremacy of Parliament.
That aside, this man is setting new standards , again as said every politician has lied. But none have lied and been caught lying multiple times as this man has. His and his parties response is ,"so what we are busy, suck it,".
So it's alright now is it? Don't ever expect a PM to do anything other than blatantly lie.
Our politics, our democracy has always only worked because of an element of trust, thin at times we know.
But that is the human condition. Boris, is removing that thin line that is the glue that makes it even begin to work.
And it may never be got back , because if he can do this so can anyone else.