labour staff vote for strike action...

[srb7677]

Gosh I must have hit a nerve. I love the way you call them my lot and also the media are my lot. That's ridiculous too. I'm not convinced by any of your arguments so far. That's not at all a criticism of you but I do worry how many actually believe in the Utopia that you seem sold on. There will never be a time or a Government that will enable everyone to be equal. We are not equal in ability, ambition, beliefs potential or anything else. It cannot be. We have suffered generations of education for example which has told children that you cannot fail. They have cancelled competition and yet life in the real world is competition from day one. Those who are ambitious and manage an element of success are essential for those less able. Yet it is seen as evil to facilitate those who can, or even to facilitate the bright/talented to shine. The reason the far left fails is because their policies are bent on failure for the masses.

When have I ever said we should all be equal? You invent a straw man to attack rather than anything I have actually said. Yes I believe there is too much inequality but that is not at all the same thing. And the supposed utopia you imagine me to be advocating is nothing more than already exists in most other prosperous societies - reasonable rents and security of tenure mandated by law, a sufficiency of social housing, decent terms and conditions in the workplace, reasonable pay, and action against excessive inequality, plus education free at the point of use. These are all things that exist in many of our neighbours and which used to exist here. That you see that as some sort of utopia is typical of many a Tory who bought into an unfettered free market Thatcherite ideology. But it is nothing at all unreasonable or undeliverable. However much you want it to be. It certainly isn't "far left" which is a typically lazy assumption made by people who have no clue what the far left actually is. It is tabloid claptrap and wilful mislabeling.

[T00ts]

And you are blatantly ignoring and trying to explain away the obvious fact that every man and his dog knows to be true. That the main reason people don't vote for things they like and believe in is the belief that in doing so their votes will be wasted. You must know that to be true unless you are utterly deluding yourself with wishful thinking. The only way to change that is to boycott the big two and vote for anything else.

But then your lot and your friends in the media are fond of claiming that the public are behind you whenever you win an election, even though even under FPTP a majority don't vote Tory. At best - same is true of Labour governments - you only have the backing of the largest minority. The majority of of the public do not actually back you as a government at all, though it is possible that a majority might back one or two individual policies. But to assume the public is behind you when even under FPTP  only a minority voted for you, is self servingly dishonest claptrap of the first order.

Gosh I must have hit a nerve.  I love the way you call them my lot and also the media are my lot. That's ridiculous too. I'm not convinced by any of your arguments so far. That's not at all a criticism of you but I do worry how many actually believe in the Utopia that you seem sold on. There will never be a time or a Government that will enable everyone to be equal. We are not equal in ability, ambition, beliefs potential or anything else. It cannot be. We have suffered generations of education for example which has told children that you cannot fail. They have cancelled competition and yet life in the real world is competition from day one. Those who are ambitious and manage an element of success are essential for those less able. Yet it is seen as evil to facilitate those who can, or even to facilitate the bright/talented to shine. The reason the far left fails is because their policies are bent on failure for the masses.

[srb7677]

There is a difference in liking ideas and voting for them when they are seen to be great but unrealistic in terms of cost and the impact on society. People are not so stupid as some like to think.

And you are blatantly ignoring and trying to explain away the obvious fact that every man and his dog knows to be true. That the main reason people don't vote for things they like and believe in is the belief that in doing so their votes will be wasted. You must know that to be true unless you are utterly deluding yourself with wishful thinking. The only way to change that is to boycott the big two and vote for anything else.

But then your lot and your friends in the media are fond of claiming that the public are behind you whenever you win an election, even though even under FPTP a majority don't vote Tory. At best - same is true of Labour governments - you only have the backing of the largest minority. The majority of of the public do not actually back you as a government at all, though it is possible that a majority might back one or two individual policies. But to assume the public is behind you when even under FPTP  only a minority voted for you, is self servingly dishonest claptrap of the first order.

[T00ts]

That is nonsense I must say. When asked by pollsters in previous elections, more people backed the policies of the Greens than anyone else's. The problem is rarely ever the lack of an appealing manifesto, but more a problem inherent with FPTP itself, ie the likelihood that if you don't back one of the two front runners your vote is highly likely to be wasted. In most seats in England those two front runners will be Tory or Labour. In some the Lib Dems will be one of the front runners instead of one of those two. And there is one solitary seat where the Greens are on top. And that's about it. There are always numerous others standing but most are dismissed in advance as no hopers by most voters, even many of the ones who might agree with some of them. This two party duopoly must be broken, and it can only be broken by voting for anyone but those two. Otherwise we will never get genuine democracy in this country.

There is a difference in liking ideas and voting for them when they are seen to be great but unrealistic in terms of cost and the impact on society. People are not so stupid as some like to think.

[srb7677]

The problem seems to be more that only 2 parties produce manifestos with any real appeal to the majority of the electorate

That is nonsense I must say. When asked by pollsters in previous elections, more people backed the policies of the Greens than anyone else's. The problem is rarely ever the lack of an appealing manifesto, but more a problem inherent with FPTP itself, ie the likelihood that if you don't back one of the two front runners your vote is highly likely to be wasted. In most seats in England those two front runners will be Tory or Labour. In some the Lib Dems will be one of the front runners instead of one of those two. And there is one solitary seat where the Greens are on top. And that's about it. There are always numerous others standing but most are dismissed in advance as no hopers by most voters, even many of the ones who might agree with some of them. This two party duopoly must be broken, and it can only be broken by voting for anyone but those two. Otherwise we will never get genuine democracy in this country.

[T00ts]

I don't get this binary choice thing. When I go to the polls there are inevitably a number of choices and I can put my mark wherever I like. The problem seems to be more that only 2 parties produce manifestos with any real appeal to the majority of the electorate. So those who feel underrepresented want to swing the deal so that they get a say. 

In my view that simply muddies the waters and is likely to end up with Government rowing around in circles. It's simple. Get a manifesto that is a good one and not a lot of pie in the sky dreamwork that will appeal to enough people to put your idea in power rather than twist everyone's vote. 

[srb7677]

The party of the workers?

What an absolute shower.
No Steve a disaster for us all.

Well it would certainly be a disaster for millions of us.

The binary choice FPTP tries to force us into has never before been so rancid. Never before, in spite of fierce competion  from previous elections, has FPTP itself been so obviously not fit for purpose.

I will not accept that binary choice. Feeling that we have to do so to make our vote count is exactly what those scumbags in both parties rely on. Neither will be getting my vote. The Tories fielding the most openly corrupt, dishonest, and incompetent government and party in living memory, Labour offering nothing but platitudes and empty words from a leader utterly lacking in any kind of vision, leading a party of self seeking careerists on the make who believe in nothing but power for it's own sake, and Starmer himself a proven liar.

Having to choose between these pair is a bit like having to choose between whether you'd prefer dog shit or cat shit on your lawn, when all you really want is an efficient lawnmower. 

We need to stop playing their game, voting for one of them purely on the basis of them being slightly less awful than the other lot. That merely guarantees something awful is bound to get in, and round and round it goes. We should not vote for either - neither is deserving of it - and regardless of FPTP register our protest by voting for whichever one of the others best reflects our views. Because our protest will count for more by voting for something other than the binary choice, than it would by simply not voting at all or spoiling our ballot paper. Yet even doing that is better than voting for either of the binary choice. Anyone who votes for either of the main parties right now is surely a fool.

[cromwell]

The party of the workers?

What an absolute shower.

Starmer won't though, because any success he and his fellow Blairites might hope to achieve in the short term is utterly dependent upon retaining the two party stitch up.

Unless of course there is a hung parliament and any cooperation from other parties is dependent upon electoral reform. Because nothing else matters to him beyond power for it's own sake, and if that's the price he has to pay he will.

And once we have that all cards are back on the table and Blairism is largely doomed in the long run. So my hope is a hung parliament but so far those Tory idiots are doing all in their power to give Starmer a landslide. Which would be a disaster not only for the Tories but for the left as well.

No Steve a disaster for us all.

[srb7677]

over half of labours parliamentary constituency parties are demanding starmer back PR?

Starmer won't though, because any success he and his fellow Blairites might hope to achieve in the short term is utterly dependent upon retaining the two party stitch up.

Unless of course there is a hung parliament and any cooperation from other parties is dependent upon electoral reform. Because nothing else matters to him beyond power for it's own sake, and if that's the price he has to pay he will.

And once we have that all cards are back on the table and Blairism is largely doomed in the long run. So my hope is a hung parliament but so far those Tory idiots are doing all in their power to give Starmer a landslide. Which would be a disaster not only for the Tories but for the left as well.

[Thomas]

Indeed. Whilst none of us on the left have any love for the Tories and would never vote for them, most of us actually hate the Labour party as it is now even more. After all we have seen, heard, and experienced in the party close up, our hatred for Labour feels much more personal and bitter.

pretty much steve , because you know blairite labour dont represent your values anymore than they represented mine ,and are hiding behind the labour name under false pretences .

I see it reported on twitter yesterday that over half of labours parliamentary constituency parties are demanding starmer back PR?

[srb7677]

wasnt the "genius" ( no laughing please) of blairites politics twenty odd years ago holding onto the lefts votes as they had no where else to go while capturing the votes of the tory marginals to win an  election?

can't someone explain the flaw in that "genius" line of thought to sir keir and his party in modern politics? From what i see each day online, the yookay left despise starmer and his minions with a passion.

Indeed. Whilst none of us on the left have any love for the Tories and would never vote for them, most of us actually hate the Labour party as it is now even more. After all we have seen, heard, and experienced in the party close up, our hatred for Labour feels much more personal and bitter.

[Thomas]

Labour Party Shame: Staff vote for strike action against the Labour Party over real-terms pay cut

Labour Leadership attacks on workers with a pay cut are being met with resistance.
Not a headline anyone would ever have imagined, the Labour Party formed over 122 years ago to fight for better pay and conditions for workers now acting like Tory Bosses.
It seems almost unbelievable the Labour Party has moved so far to the right the only distinction between it and the Tories is the name.

https://labourheartlands.com/labour-party-shame-staff-vote-for-strike-action-against-the-labour-party-over-real-terms-pay-cut/




wasnt the "genius" ( no laughing please) of blairites politics twenty odd years ago holding onto the lefts votes as they had no where else to go while capturing the votes of the tory marginals to win an  election?

Cant someone explain the flaw in that "genius" line of thought to sir keir and his party in modern politics? From what i see each day online, the yookay left despise starmer and his minions with a passion.

[Thomas]

on to of that , labours income down £10 million per annum and the party close to bankruptcy under starmer , and this clown wants to run the uk economy?

[Thomas]

Labour staff vote for strike action over real-terms pay cut

Starmer-Evans shambles continues

Labour staff who are members of the Unite union have voted in favour of strike action today in an indicative ballot. Unite members have rejected the party's offered 2% pay increase, which amounts to a real terms pay cut of around 3.4%, and have asked to meet the party mamagement next week.

The woes inflicted on the party by mismanagement, legal cowardice and the Starmer-Evans war on members and their human rights has already seen Labour sack dozens of staff saying it needed to cut costs, as left campaigner Tory Fibs has pointed out:

https://skwawkbox.org/2022/01/28/labour-staff-vote-for-strike-action-over-real-terms-pay-cut/

[Thomas]

The party of the workers cutting the pay of hard workers.