Cost of energy and the cost of living crisis.

[Thomas]

Sheepy is the biggest Tory on here Thomas.

sheepy isnt a tory , and doesnt support them .If you actually read his posts he consistently criticises the tories and labour , and calls both of them together the westmisnter party.

You need to read and understand peopls posts , not what you think they are posting , and stop misrepresenting their political values to throw dirt at them because they dont agree with you.

Sheepy is a populist by his own description .

And no, he quoted a post on fracking.

heres your post yet agin for the hard of reading and understanding

Quote from: B0ycey on February 04, 2022, 11:55:44 AM

They had to stop fracking. It was causing earthquakes. It wouldn't matter so much if we had vast open spaces. But if it means cities and towns falling into itself, it isn't really worth the fuel. Besides, there is more than enough gas in the North Sea to keep us warm if the idea is to be net zero in a decades time.

The final sentence is clearly about north sea gas which sheepy was refering to in his reply.

[Thomas]

I don't support Starmer Thomas. And where I live it seems my vote is worthless right now in any case. So I support time. If the union can somehow remain with Johnson in power and the UK doesnt turn into a complete mess, in the next three years I can see that attitudes are changing and a Socialist policies are our future and that means a move towards Social Democracy and Old Labour values in time. There are people in Labour who stand for those values BTW. But they are a few decades away from being the mainstream voice of the party. So today I just want respect and honesty in politics and that means Johnson out. Once Johnson is out I want to see the Tories out of power and then New Labour out of power. It is the long game to Socialism which I guess is the same for you given you support the SNP despite criticising them all the time.

I dont support the snp , im a scottish indy supporter who loans his vote to any party that furthers independence.

I have made it clear many times over the years as john of gwent , or cromwell among many other long terms posters will tell you that i wouldnt vote snp in an indy scotland.

As for starmer , im simply saying by all means criticise the tories , but dont forget to criticise new labour and the likes of starmer , and his crew like rachel reeve and many others , who are all also tories.

Im not sure about your interpretation of socilaism being the future and moving towards old labour values. I have been hearing the revolution is just around the corner from lefties like you all my life.

There are people in Labour who stand for those values BTW.

[B0ycey]

aye and everyone knows that , and that is exactly sheepies continued point to you , that we shouldnt be exporting north sea gas while we have problems with high gas prices and market volatility , caused by labour and tory governments , and wider european union free market policies over many years as my article to pappysmurf explains.

But that is a problem of the free market in key sectors Thomas. The UK doesn't drill the gas and oil and as such doesn't own the stuff that comes out either. They lease out the land, very much like a landlord can't profit or sell a small business owners products despite him owning the factory. If anyone thinks that is wrong then what they are calling for is what Venezuela did a few years back to renationalise and break contracts in the process. It didn't end up well for them because they got sanctioned. Which I guess is what will happen to us if we tell a Dutch company they can't sell outside the UK.

[B0ycey]

Anyone who can  read and understand your english language on this thread can see the truth of my remarks.
no , you have this wrong. He wasnt asking how much "shale gas " we export , its you who has misunderstood his reply to you , which i clearly explained in my previous post to you.See , here you go again , misrepresenting the forum this time. No the forum isnt full of tories.

There are only three tory voters on here , borkie , nick and toots , barry is a former tory voter who is now saying he wont support them going forward , and everyone else has supported various other parties.


Stop being dishonest please. Making unfounded claims , or attacking points no one else is making.

Sheepy is the biggest Tory on here Thomas. The Free marketer who doesn't know Corbyn is a f**king Socialist. And no, he quoted a post on fracking. You are right people can read and can see you are defending the indefensible. Which doesn't surprise me as he is one of your lackies.

[B0ycey]

Keir starmer , is a blairite , who supports and worships at the altar of tony blairs ideology , yet i have heard you numerous times support starmer on what little policy he reveals.

How can you claim to hate blair  , yet support a blairite like starmer?

I don't support Starmer Thomas. And where I live it seems my vote is worthless right now in any case. So I support time. If the union can somehow remain with Johnson in power and the UK doesnt turn into a complete mess, in the next three years I can see that attitudes are changing and a Socialist policies are our future and that means a move towards Social Democracy and Old Labour values in time. There are people in Labour who stand for those values BTW. But they are a few decades away from being the mainstream voice of the party. So today I just want respect and honesty in politics and that means Johnson out. Once Johnson is out I want to see the Tories out of power and then New Labour out of power. It is the long game to Socialism which I guess is the same for you given you support the SNP despite criticising them all the time.

[Thomas]

We do however export North Sea gas.

aye and everyone knows that , and that is exactly sheepies continued point to you , that we shouldnt be exporting north sea gas while we have problems with high gas prices and market volatility , caused by labour and tory governments , and wider european union free market policies over many years as my article to pappysmurf explains.

[Thomas]

Actually Thomas, it is your who is obtuse. My comment was on fracking.

Anyone who can  read and understand your english language on this thread can see the truth of my remarks.

Sheepy asked how much did we export in which I said nothing given it is on a moratorium.

no , you have this wrong. He wasnt asking how much "shale gas " we export , its you who has misunderstood his reply to you , which i clearly explained in my previous post to you.

So if anyone has a problem with that then they are basically asking for socialism reform and not free enterpriseship which is ironic with a forum full of Tories.

See , here you go again , misrepresenting the forum this time. No the forum isnt full of tories.

There are only three tory voters on here , borkie , nick and toots , barry is a former tory voter who is now saying he wont support them going forward , and everyone else has supported various other parties.


Stop being dishonest please. Making unfounded claims , or attacking points no one else is making.

[Thomas]

Only been in here a short time and I know Pappy sees like everyone else that Blair f**ked up big time over Iraq. Blair is a slur on here and as of yet I haven't seen anyone defend the guy. He was a free market Tory who privatised every single golden goose and continued Thatchers legacy.

Right and while not many on here would disagree with you and what you have said here, dont you realise how pappysmurfs credibility on this forum is in bits because on this thread for example , he blames ( like he does with everything else) the current problems with gas volatility on the tories , while keeping silent ( as he always does) on the fact new labour in its thirteen years in power , carried on with those same policies of thatcher and major which have contributed to the problems we are seeing today?

Keir starmer , is a blairite , who supports and worships at the altar of tony blairs ideology , yet i have heard you numerous times support starmer on what little policy he reveals.

How can you claim to hate blair  , yet support a blairite like starmer?

Keir starmer , if god forbid  , he does get into power will simply carry on policy wise the same as the tories , perhaps a fag papers width to the left.

[B0ycey]

You are either being deliberately obtuse , or you arent the full ticket.

Here we are yet again on yet another thread with you having to do a thread synopsis and he said she said simply because of your unwillingness to debate honestly.

On the 14th post of the first page of this thread , hallowed brexit mentioned fracking. You and pappysmurf appear to be the only two people on this entire forum who dont realise hallowed brexit is a wind up merchant constantly taking the piss.

on the 4th post of the second page , sheepy replied to an earlier comment you had made..

Quote from: B0ycey on February 04, 2022, 11:55:44 AM
To which sheepy replied...


Quote from: Sheepy on February 04, 2022, 11:59:52 AM
Now to me  , sheepy was clearly referring to north sea gas , and asking about how much has been exported. He wasnt referring to shale gas , as everone knows fracking is banned and the uk doesnt produce any shale gas to fackin export.

To emphasise the point he was making , in his next reply to you on that  second page of this thread , sheepy even linked to a daily mail article talking about uk gas exports dubling in a year..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10455627/UK-gas-exports-double-year-millions-British-families-face-soaring-bills.html

While you carried on waffling on about fracking , a point no one had made in any serious way .

You do this consistenly on numerous threads , attack points no can't is making. I really wish you would stop it , and practice what you preach and read the replies , not what you think people are saying in their replies.

Actually Thomas, it is your who is obtuse. My comment was on fracking. Sheepy asked how much did we export in which I said nothing given it is on a moratorium. Now three things have happened here. Either sheep didn't understand the post he quoted, didn't know what moratorium meant or most likely the case, jumped into a thread and an argument without reading posts prior, which is perhaps proven when he asked who was talking about fracking (it was HB). He then kept digging into a spiral of bile and now you are trying to save his ass because he is one of you lackies. I am not here to make friends or try and convince Brexiteers that BoJo is the next best thing. I am here to inform people on politics, most of whom are lurkers. So let's be absolutely clear here, we do not export fracking gas. We do however export North Sea gas. And if anyone wants to know the reason for that it is because the government sold of contracts to the private sector who in turn has the right to do whatever they like with the gas they extract. So if anyone has a problem with that then they are basically asking for socialism reform and not free enterpriseship which is ironic with a forum full of Tories.

[Sheepy]

It appears to be full of rabid right wingers, so your impression it is lefty is frankly puzzling.

What the feck are you rambling about now? there no rabid right wingers here Borchester who finds it all amusing Toots who is no less confused than you and Nick who thinks he has an angle on it all. 

[Thomas]

It is not bollocks it is well documented fact. That the truth hurts you is you problem.

You wouldnt know truth if it jumped up and bit you , especially when it comes to "tories".

[Thomas]

If I had not started the thread there would be no debate.  The gas storage went down on the Tory watch, and their twiddling their thumbs for years has left  base load electricity generation  relying on what little atomic power generation is left and now very expensive gas turbine generation. The situation is precarious to say the least.

You dont know what you are talking about..... clearly.

Both labour and conservative governments in the uk , over many years , as well as european governments , are reaping what they have sown policy wise for decades.

Good article here if you can be bothered reading  , but as ever pappy , if you cant get a "tory bad" story , then im sure you wont be interested...

Don't Blame Putin for Europe's Energy Crisis

Regardless of Russia's gas cutbacks, Europe's own policies have made shortages and price spikes the new normal.

European leaders are quick to lament Europe's energy woes and cast blame. Lost amid the recriminations, however, is a recognition that these high energy prices are the result of exactly the kind of system European leaders wanted. Price spikes are a feature, not a bug, of Europe's decade-long gas market reform program.

Natural gas historically was sold in Europe based on long-term contracts, usually linked to the price of oil, with little flexibility to divert supplies from one destination to another. Over the past two decades, European regulators enacted a gas-market reform plan aimed at letting market forces work. They deregulated the gas sector and encouraged expanded investments in natural gas pipelines and LNG import facilities. After the 2009 crisis, when a Russian-Ukrainian standoff over pipelines led to a sudden cutoff in gas deliveries to some European countries, the European Union improved the capability to move gas more flexibly across borders.

But market forces are a two-edged sword. Buyers pay lower prices when supply is flush than they would under long-term contracts, yet when supplies are tight, prices need to rise high enough to attract additional LNG cargoes, spur more production, induce a switch to other fuels such as oil or coal, or curb demand. In short, they may mean lower prices for buyers when averaged out over the long term, as the International Energy Agency has found, but the price for those savings are more volatile prices with unpredictable spikes.

Europe benefited from the creation of gas market hubs and reliance on spot prices for a decade, but today's energy crisis demonstrates the risks of this approach. Excessive price spikes are harmful economically and unacceptable politically. At the same time, the increased flexibility that gas market liberalization provides will be essential to the European Union as its reliance on variable renewable energy sources grows over time. The answer is thus not to undo the market-based reforms, but rather supplement them with additional measures to smooth volatility and cope with inherent gas market uncertainty

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/01/europe-energy-crisis-putin-russia-gazprom-gas-ukraine/

[Thomas]

I was talking about Fracking Thomas. It isn't my fault Sheepy didn't read the thread correctly.

You are either being deliberately obtuse , or you arent the full ticket.

Here we are yet again on yet another thread with you having to do a thread synopsis and he said she said simply because of your unwillingness to debate honestly.

On the 14th post of the first page of this thread , hallowed brexit mentioned fracking. You and pappysmurf appear to be the only two people on this entire forum who dont realise hallowed brexit is a wind up merchant constantly taking the piss.

on the 4th post of the second page , sheepy replied to an earlier comment you had made..

Quote from: B0ycey on February 04, 2022, 11:55:44 AM

They had to stop fracking. It was causing earthquakes. It wouldn't matter so much if we had vast open spaces. But if it means cities and towns falling into itself, it isn't really worth the fuel. Besides, there is more than enough gas in the North Sea to keep us warm if the idea is to be net zero in a decades time.

To which sheepy replied...


Quote from: Sheepy on February 04, 2022, 11:59:52 AM

How much of it has been exported this year does the amount differ from other years?

Now to me  , sheepy was clearly referring to north sea gas , and asking about how much has been exported. He wasnt referring to shale gas , as everone knows fracking is banned and the uk doesnt produce any shale gas to fackin export.

To emphasise the point he was making , in his next reply to you on that  second page of this thread , sheepy even linked to a daily mail article talking about uk gas exports dubling in a year..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10455627/UK-gas-exports-double-year-millions-British-families-face-soaring-bills.html

While you carried on waffling on about fracking , a point no one had made in any serious way .

You do this consistenly on numerous threads , attack points no cant is making. I really wish you would stop it , and practice what you preach and read the replies , not what you think people are saying in their replies.

[T00ts]

It appears to be full of rabid right wingers, so your impression it is lefty is frankly puzzling.

...but no-one is as far left as you Pappy you are unique. 

[papasmurf]

What a load of rubbish. This Forum is a lefty forum. 

It appears to be full of rabid right wingers, so your impression it is lefty is frankly puzzling.