Cost of energy and the cost of living crisis.

[B0ycey]

The government could reverse £200 of the price lncrease right now by removing the surcharges it puts on all of us for its green agenda.

Before I address this, I just want to say I agree. But it isn't as simple as you might think. I do think the government wants to be energy sufficient as quickly as possible and the idea is we get all of our energy from renewable sources and preferably those sources being within the UK. Which means we need to keep the levies in order to build the infrastructure. However I would still scrap the charges for two years. It might slow down investment and make us go two years behind our "green targets", but it is better to give people £200 now that they won't have to pay back than ask for £40 each year for five years in the future when in all likelyhood prices will continue to go up.

[papasmurf]

So have they got a future?

They are not as green as they are painted. The battery back up systems needed for them to produce 24 hour a day are not green to make and neither are wind turbines which only have life of 15 years. (1/2 a million tonnes of concrete was used on the wind farm near me.)

[Borchester]

In real time  44.2% of current demand, but it is a windy day:-

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

So have they got a future?

[papasmurf]

I like it, although I am not sure how much energy we can expect from the average  (ie scrawny ) treehugger.

What about all these windfarms and such? How much juice are we getting out of them?

In real time  44.2% of current demand, but it is a windy day:-

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

[Borchester]

The opening comments reveal precisely where the problem lies

"You can afford it"

"You think the problem is the cost of the raw materials"

"You think pushing the UK to use more renewables which cost MORE than non renewables will solve the price problem"

The government could reverse £200 of the price lncrease right now by removing the surcharges it puts on all of us for its green agenda.

To misquote Lady WhiteAdder

Cold weather is god's way of telling us we should burn more Greta cultists in our biomass power plants

Maybe I should tell Jimmy Carr to add that tomhis stand up routine...

I like it, although I am not sure how much energy we can expect from the average  (ie scrawny ) treehugger.

What about all these windfarms and such? How much juice are we getting out of them?

[Borchester]

John I am posting this link with no comment, more at link:-



https://www.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.7228/manchester/9780719096020.001.0001/upso-9780719096020-chapter-6


Sinnreich Erdacht: machines of mass incineration in fact, fiction, and forensics

Jan van Pelt Robert

DOI:10.7228/manchester/9780719096020.003.0006


In 1942 engineers of the German crematory oven builder Topf and Sons in Erfurt developed a design for an oven that could incinerate up to 7,000 corpses per day with a minimal use of fuel. This design was based on their experiences in Auschwitz. Was the design viable, and who would have been the likely customer? This chapter investigates the motivations behind such an architectural project and the intentions of the Nazis towards the bodies of those they sought to eradicate. It will explore the technologies used and sought, as well as the difficulties created by attempting to commit atrocities on such a large scale.

At Treblinka they cremated the corpses on open pyres, with the bodies providing their own fuel. It was horrific and obscene, but tragically, if, like the Nazis you want to be obscene, there isn't much that will stop you.

[Thomas]

I saw it on a left leaning forum on FB, and a mere FB forum of any political persuasion is not a wholly reliable source. I have to go within minutes to get ready for work, so if someone else wants to investigate the facts in the meantime, feel free. If no one feels so inclined I will look into it myself when I get home probably some time after about 6pm

There is also a wider problem here as well steve , where the french and other european countries have had long term energy policy commitments and outlook , for example building nuclear power stations over many years that contribute 75 % of the production of frances electricity , while both new labour and tory governments for decades have been all over the place with short term energy policys that flip flop all over the place.

Scotland is one of the few nations in western europe that can feed fuel and power itself and still have loads left to export , we hold two thirds of the uk gas , and over 90 % of its oil in our waters , yet because we are tied to englands pathetic energy policies we are being dragged down with your country.

If the snp can't make massive anti union political capital out of this , and force a vote on the union pronto , then they may as well give up as a political party .

As i said to morayloon on here yesterday , this lie from the british , and their better together sycophants in both labour and tory in 2014 never gets old...

[papasmurf]

Cold weather is god's way of telling us we should burn more Greta cultists in our biomass power plants

Maybe I should tell Jimmy Carr to add that tomhis stand up routine...

John I am posting this link with no comment, more at link:-



https://www.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.7228/manchester/9780719096020.001.0001/upso-9780719096020-chapter-6


Sinnreich Erdacht: machines of mass incineration in fact, fiction, and forensics

Jan van Pelt Robert

DOI:10.7228/manchester/9780719096020.003.0006


In 1942 engineers of the German crematory oven builder Topf and Sons in Erfurt developed a design for an oven that could incinerate up to 7,000 corpses per day with a minimal use of fuel. This design was based on their experiences in Auschwitz. Was the design viable, and who would have been the likely customer? This chapter investigates the motivations behind such an architectural project and the intentions of the Nazis towards the bodies of those they sought to eradicate. It will explore the technologies used and sought, as well as the difficulties created by attempting to commit atrocities on such a large scale.

[Thomas]

I have seen something interesting and enraging said on Facebook but lack the time to verify it now so others can confirm or refute what I am about to say. But if it is true, and we cannot be sure without confirmation from a more reliable source, the French energy company EDF is increasing prices for it's French customers by 4% because the French government has limited it to that. But it is increasing prices for it's British customers by 54%. If this is true - and if no one else has confirmed or refuted it in the meantime, I will look into it myself when I get home from work - it is surely damning.

It is true steve. EDF is 80 % owned by the french gov.



France to force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap
Company loses fifth of market value after French government sets out plan to protect households

The French government will force EDF, the state energy giant, to take an €8.4bn (£7bn) financial hit to protect households from rocketing energy costs by limiting bill hikes to 4% this year.

The company lost a fifth of its market value on Friday after the French government set out plans to cap rising energy bills, which include forcing EDF to sell electricity generated by its fleet of nuclear reactors to rival home suppliers at well below the current record high market prices.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/14/france-edf-cap-household-energy-bills

EDF shares plunge as Macron shields consumers from soaring energy bills

PARIS, Jan 14 (Reuters) - EDF's (EDF.PA) shares slumped as much as 25% and were set for their worst day of trading after the French government ordered the utility to sell more cheap nuclear power to rivals to limit the rise in electricity prices.

EDF, which is 80% owned by the French government, said the move would cost the company up to 8.4 billion euros ($9.64 billion) and dropped its 2022 earnings guidance.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/power-group-edfs-shares-slump-after-edf-drops-earnings-guidance-2022-01-14/

Comment la mise en concurrence européenne et le système Arenh sont en train de détruire EDF

https://www.marianne.net/agora/entretiens-et-debats/comment-la-mise-en-concurrence-europeenne-et-le-systeme-arenh-sont-en-train-de-detruire-edf


and in the article above the french are complaining about  gas and electricity "competiton and liberalisation from successive french governments ", which have contributed to the problems  and they are saying private competion does not work.

[johnofgwent]

We're fortunate enough to be able to pay the higher energy prices. We've never been extravagant in our energy consumption so there isn't much we can cut back on without becoming uncomfortable.

There's not much we can do about the rising price of imported gas. Britain has made good progress in the transition to renewables ...

The opening comments reveal precisely where the problem lies

"You can afford it"

"You think the problem is the cost of the raw materials"

"You think pushing the UK to use more renewables which cost MORE than non renewables will solve the price problem"

The government could reverse £200 of the price lncrease right now by removing the surcharges it puts on all of us for its green agenda.

To misquote Lady WhiteAdder

Cold weather is god's way of telling us we should burn more Greta cultists in our biomass power plants 

Maybe I should tell Jimmy Carr to add that tomhis stand up routine...

[papasmurf]

I saw it on a left leaning forum on FB, and a mere FB forum of any political persuasion is not a wholly reliable source. I have to go within minutes to get ready for work, so if someone else wants to investigate the facts in the meantime, feel free. If no one feels so inclined I will look into it myself when I get home probably some time after about 6pm

It appears EDF are increasing prices:-


https://www.edfenergy.com/media-centre/news-releases/edf-statement-changes-its-prices

[srb7677]

My energy supplier is EDF however I have a fixed price contract until until February 2023.
If they are raising the cost to UK customers it would be somewhat perverse because as far as I am aware EDF has no fossil fuel based generation in Britain.

I saw it on a left leaning forum on FB, and a mere FB forum of any political persuasion is not a wholly reliable source. I have to go within minutes to get ready for work, so if someone else wants to investigate the facts in the meantime, feel free. If no one feels so inclined I will look into it myself when I get home probably some time after about 6pm

[papasmurf]

we cannot be sure without confirmation from a more reliable source, the French energy company EDF is increasing prices for it's French customers by 4% because the French government has limited it to that. But it is increasing prices for it's British customers by 54%. If this is true - and if no one else has confirmed or refuted it in the meantime, I will look into it myself when I get home from work - it is surely damning.

My energy supplier is EDF however I have a fixed price contract until until February 2023.
If they are raising the cost to UK customers it would be somewhat perverse because as far as I am aware EDF has no fossil fuel based generation in Britain.

[srb7677]

There has in fact been a cost of living crisis developing for many decades, mostly associated with spiralling housing costs and ever more extortionate energy costs, all in the face of stagnant wages that have been falling in real terms. Hasn't anyone noticed the homeless in the streets? Hasn't anyone noticed the food banks breeding like rabbits? The latest energy price hikes are going hand in hand with ever higher food prices, ever higher house prices and rents, ever higher fuel prices, continined wage stagnation, all at at the very time when companies, also affected by some of these rising costs, are cutting hours, thereby driving down pay for millions just as the cost of living crisis is widening and deepening. 

It is far more than just energy costs and food costs. The real biggie that has been decades in the making are extortionate housing costs. Something needs to be done about that in particular. We are heading for a cost of living crisis so unprecedented that no one young enough not to have experienced the 1930s has seen anything like it. Yes there was mass unemployment in the 80s due to deindustrialisation, and the spending of the wealth generated from North Sea oil on tax cuts mostly for the wealthy rather than investing in newer technologies. But the welfare state was far less eviscerated than it now is, there was no need for food banks, and for the majority of people in work private rents were still at reasonably low levels and house prices were in reach of far more people, and there was still a lot more social housing. Some struggled of course due to the exceptionally high interest rates, whilst others were on the dole for long periods, it was certainly hard for some people. But energy prices were also a lot lower in real terms, likewise fuel.

But what is coming now for working age people and for children dependent upon them is going to be far worse than the 80s. Unless there is far more direct action from government in terms of both mandating lower costs and widening safety nets.

I have seen something interesting and enraging said on Facebook but lack the time to verify it now so others can confirm or refute what I am about to say. But if it is true, and we cannot be sure without confirmation from a more reliable source, the French energy company EDF is increasing prices for it's French customers by 4% because the French government has limited it to that. But it is increasing prices for it's British customers by 54%. If this is true - and if no one else has confirmed or refuted it in the meantime, I will look into it myself when I get home from work - it is surely damning.

[papasmurf]

Maybe Boycey will tie them down while Smurphy cranks the handle.

No need they are strapped down.