So much for Brexit

[Thomas]

In other words you are talking about the future EU-UK relationship and the possible issues and pitfalls — which is exactly what I am trying to do. The hypocrisy is so blatant that it's actually fairly comical.

What hypocrisy is that then doggy?

So yeah Thomas, seeing as you appear to be the only person allowed to discuss the future relationship,

 ::



What ?



Who made this rule up? Certainly wasnt me.

perhaps you can tell us what potential issues there are for the UK in coming to a deal with the EU?

I could , but i wont , as i couldnt give a feck.



What i will say is after this latest extension , now called a transition , if the english get a BRINO , then they are going to receive some utter stick and be the laughing stock of the world.

 What level of regulatory alignment do you think would equate to BRINO? Or is any alignment at all automatically BRINO? If the UK diverges and London deregulates, do you think the average Brexit voter would be happy to see London bankers being less accountable?

Personally speaking i would say as many people have since day one , that if England "leaves" the eu , and still comes under the ECJ , is still in a CU , still pays in massive sums (£8.9 billion at least over the next 11 months)and is still subject to FOM , or some form of it dressed up as something else , then clearly this goes against the grain of what brexiters on this forum , and elsehwere told us leaving the eu was all about.



We had brexiters like stevlin tell us about there being no need to pay astronomical amounts of money to trade with the eu , borchester telling us it was all about taking back control and not being subject to european laws and jurisdiction of the ECJ , streetwalker saying many a time how he was extremely opposed to FOM etc etc.



So i would say any level of alignment that gives all or some of the above issues would be a BRINO.



Indeed , even arch europhiles like blair said remaining in a CU with the eu would take away the only aspect he ever saw of worth in the whole brexit affair , the ability for the uk to make its own trade deals as we have discussed many a time.



If the johnson government trys to sell all or some variation of the above , it will indeed show where the true power actually lays , in brussells rather than london , and england will get a ribbing accordingly as i have always said.

If the UK diverges and London deregulates, do you think the average Brexit voter would be happy to see London bankers being less accountable?

Why ask me?



Surely you need to direct your question to an ....english brexiter?

But so far we have you criticising me for talking about very same thing you have been talking about,

Where?



I welcome you talking about brexit , i merely criticise and question the motives behind a so called irishman in dublin desperate for england not to leave the eu.



Your great hope in the remain camp based in england winning the general election in december has now obviously been crushed , so you are now onto using trade negotiations to browbeat the english into accepting BRINO .



If that happens , then quite obviously farage and co will be out in the streets organising a mass uprising. I would then expect the conservatives to suffer the same fate as labour in the next GE.



Dont listen to me though . You carry on as you are conor , its all good fun listening to you rant away in total meltdown.

while the Leavers on the forum seem terrified of expressing their opinion.

Well thats a big leap in logic conor. Maybe they are tired rather than terrified of reiterating the same thing over and over to you.?

[Conchúr]

No, you said they... That implies multiple people, who are the others?

Why don't you ask Streetwalker ? He said "we".

[Nick]

Because he said he didn't ?

No, you said they... That implies multiple people, who are the others?

[Conchúr]

The usual generalisation Conor. How do you know who trusts the government and who doesn't.

Because he said he didn't ?

[Nick]

Fair dues on being honest about it, but perhaps you can understand my bewilderment that people are contenting themselves with being told what they want to hear by a government they don't trust.  And as I've said before, I'm not actually asking you to say whether you support the Tory Brexit or not. I'm asking people to actually outline what they personally want from it.



So far, nobody has provided an answer of any substance, saying that they want to wait and see how it all unfolds before having an opinion. In essence, people on here who have been Leavers for years and maybe even decades, who have lauded the great potential involved in leaving the EU, now suddenly go limp and mute as to what they would now like to see.



To me that sounds suspiciously like waiting to be told what one should support, and then claiming that it's what you wanted all along.  It's an artificial method of being infallible, all to protect one's sense of intellectual righteousness.

The usual generalisation Conor. How do you know who trusts the government and who doesn't.

[Conchúr]

Perhaps Conchúr, it merely supports what we've been saying for years.

People voted to leave for many reasons, but the main one was to politically disengage from Europe, that process will be mostly completed on 31st January.

John Major should never have got us into this mess in the first place, not without a referendum.

We have confidence in our country, and know it will do well whether in or out of a single market.

Yes, though "politically disengaging from Europe" can be interpreted in any number of ways. It's the level of disengagement which matters, because on one extreme you would have a policy of complete political and economic isolation from Europe and on the other extreme you would have a Brexit so soft that many would consider it BRINO.



Now, I don't imagine that you would advocate complete isolation from Europe, so the question is what level of engagement you would be willing to accept.  What you have to remember is that any form of engagement, be it one all-encompassing deal on trade or a series of agreements, will involve acceptance of EU law and regulations to various extents. One might say — yes — but we won't have to incorporate EU law into UK domestic law. But by signing a deal with the EU which involves equivalence of standards or alignment, this is de facto incorporating EU law into UK law because the UK would be bound to abide by EU standards for the purposes of the FTA.   If Brexiteers don't like it, they will call for the No Deal walk away option — but that brings up a whole raft of issues and could actually work to the EU's advantage long term.



The danger for Brexiteers is that, with his admittedly highly effective spin machine, Boris on the one hand spins glorious tales of departure from the EU regulatory sphere — but with the other hand gradually binds the UK into a complex series of agreements that keeps it within the sphere.  From what I can see in this thread so far, Boris would possibly be right to believe that he can have his spin masters dress up a deal whatever they want — and people will just swallow it up willingly so long as [optically] Brexit has been done, even if it means the UK has simply thrown off one set of "shackles" and replaced them with a new set.

[Barry]

Who is this "we?"   I have no confidence at all in Boris Johnson or that Britain will do well.

Leavers. It does not apply to you.

[papasmurf]

We have confidence in our country, and know it will do well whether in or out of a single market.

Who is this "we?"   I have no confidence at all in Boris Johnson or that Britain will do well.

[Barry]

Perhaps Conchúr, it merely supports what we've been saying for years.

People voted to leave for many reasons, but the main one was to politically disengage from Europe, that process will be mostly completed on 31st January.

John Major should never have got us into this mess in the first place, not without a referendum.

We have confidence in our country, and know it will do well whether in or out of a single market.

[Conchúr]

Probably guilty as charged .

The thing is we don't trust Johnson but he is telling us everything we want to hear . So maybe we don't want to make complete dickheads of ourselves by coming out in support of the tory Brexit only to then  be handed our arses by the Europhiles with 'I told you so ' posts .



Victory is a long way off and debate will return as we clear or fall at each hurdle  as negotiations progress . I will be raising a glass on the 31st though not to Johnson and his cronies but to Farage and all those who have fought for our independence for the past 20 odd years as we finally clear the first .

Fair dues on being honest about it, but perhaps you can understand my bewilderment that people are contenting themselves with being told what they want to hear by a government they don't trust.  And as I've said before, I'm not actually asking you to say whether you support the Tory Brexit or not. I'm asking people to actually outline what they personally want from it.



So far, nobody has provided an answer of any substance, saying that they want to wait and see how it all unfolds before having an opinion. In essence, people on here who have been Leavers for years and maybe even decades, who have lauded the great potential involved in leaving the EU, now suddenly go limp and mute as to what they would now like to see.



To me that sounds suspiciously like waiting to be told what one should support, and then claiming that it's what you wanted all along.  It's an artificial method of being infallible, all to protect one's sense of intellectual righteousness.

[T00ts]

Victory is a long way off and debate will return as we clear or fall at each hurdle  as negotiations progress . I will be raising a glass on the 31st though not to Johnson and his cronies but to Farage and all those who have fought for our independence for the past 20 odd years as we finally clear the first .

 :hattip  :hattip

[Streetwalker]

It's bizarre really . . . Eurosceptics have spent years telling us about all the great things that could be done once freed from the shackles of Brussels. And now, in their moment if victory, they have gone strangely silent on here — apparently waiting for the overlords in Westminster to direct them as to what their opinions should be.

Probably guilty as charged .

The thing is we don't trust Johnson but he is telling us everything we want to hear . So maybe we don't want to make complete dickheads of ourselves by coming out in support of the tory Brexit only to then  be handed our arses by the Europhiles with 'I told you so ' posts .



Victory is a long way off and debate will return as we clear or fall at each hurdle  as negotiations progress . I will be raising a glass on the 31st though not to Johnson and his cronies but to Farage and all those who have fought for our independence for the past 20 odd years as we finally clear the first .

[GerryT]

Now Gerry don't get in to a lather,it's just you said he didn't say it....but he did

Good try  but show me where leo said what you claimed below. Beacuse to the best of my knowledge, he didnt





I remember you after listening to Leo saying that we wouldn't be allowed to fly any where or even fly over eu lands,what happened that and are you happy you were lied to.

[Conchúr]

::



Political nuance goes right over your head doggy doesnt it?



Just making sure bojo doesnt stitch the anglo brexiters up , and they get brexit instead of some ECJ , FOM ,CU ,  Bill paying stitch up which wasnt what they voted for .



You on the other hand continue like a broken down record re running argument after argument from the last four years to try and stop engerlund from leaving the eu , or at least BRINO.

In other words you are talking about the future EU-UK relationship and the possible issues and pitfalls — which is exactly what I am trying to do. The hypocrisy is so blatant that it's actually fairly comical.



So yeah Thomas, seeing as you appear to be the only person allowed to discuss the future relationship, perhaps you can tell us what potential issues there are for the UK in coming to a deal with the EU?   What level of regulatory alignment do you think would equate to BRINO? Or is any alignment at all automatically BRINO?  If the UK diverges and London deregulates, do you think the average Brexit voter would be happy to see London bankers being less accountable?



These are all things which people need to think about, and I would have thought a Brexit-specific forum would be a good place to find people who want to discuss it.  But so far we have you criticising me for talking about very same thing you have been talking about, while the Leavers on the forum seem terrified of expressing their opinion.



It's bizarre really . . . Eurosceptics have spent years telling us about all the great things that could be done once freed from the shackles of Brussels. And now, in their moment if victory, they have gone strangely silent on here — apparently waiting for the overlords in Westminster to direct them as to what their opinions should be. As for you on the other hand, you talk about the future relationship — which is great — but then criticise me for talking about .... which is fairly strange.

[cromwell]

Did you read the article, it clearly says

Under the Chicago Convention, aircraft from signatory countries have right to overfly another signatory country's airpspace, and this will continue after a no-deal Brexit.

The article clearly says planes can fly over UK/EU. But it does say UK only airlines or EU only airlines can't fly into each other airports without a deal on Aviation, which I would say is fact.

But then most Airlines have taken out operator licenses in the EU following strict guidelines, the story gets an update here, so there is a major issue that will need fixing if there is a hard brexit



https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/eu-gives-airlines-deadline-for-no-deal-brexit-1.3780538">https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.3780538">https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/eu-gives-airlines-deadline-for-no-deal-brexit-1.3780538



So no Euromyth, just facts and figures. Do you not believe it, if not whats your understanding ?



But if you want some Euromyths from UK rags you'll find hundreds of them here, all lies, wonder did Johnson write any of these. It would be his form.



https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/">https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/eu ... a-z-index/">https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

Now Gerry don't get in to a lather,it's just you said he didn't say it....but he did