So much for Brexit

[GerryT]

Really Gerry how long has the Irish times been part of the U.K. Press printing euro myths.

Did you read the article, it clearly says

Under the Chicago Convention, aircraft from signatory countries have right to overfly another signatory country's airpspace, and this will continue after a no-deal Brexit.

The article clearly says planes can fly over UK/EU. But it does say UK only airlines or EU only airlines can't fly into each other airports without a deal on Aviation, which I would say is fact.

But then most Airlines have taken out operator licenses in the EU following strict guidelines, the story gets an update here, so there is a major issue that will need fixing if there is a hard brexit



https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/eu-gives-airlines-deadline-for-no-deal-brexit-1.3780538">https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.3780538">https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/eu-gives-airlines-deadline-for-no-deal-brexit-1.3780538



So no Euromyth, just facts and figures. Do you not believe it, if not whats your understanding ?



But if you want some Euromyths from UK rags you'll find hundreds of them here, all lies, wonder did Johnson write any of these. It would be his form.



https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/">https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/eu ... a-z-index/">https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

[cromwell]

Not me, I said the total opposite. There are international rules preventing countries from preventing flights pass through countries. What I did say is a UK airline could fly in and out of the EU but under a hard brexit or without the agreement a UK won't be able to fly into the EU and then onto another EU destination. Plus Leo never said this, just more UK press printing euro-myths.



Yes Ireland and other EU countries will suffer, but there's very little we can do about it, the UK unilaterally decided to weaken the trading relationship. On the plus side Ireland is not a very large economy, about 14% of the UK's which makes it easier to find replacement markets for losses due to brexit in monetary value. Secondly we see barriers introduced to one market the UK-which represents nearly 12% of our exports.

On the other hand the UK is seeing barriers to ALL markets and while some FTA's will be concluded quickly (less than 5 yrs) it will be a small percentage of the UK exports.

The UK exports to the EU represents about 40$ of total UK exports. That's the UK export risk with the EU, if we put Ireland's export risk to the UK, in terms of the UK economy it would represent (12% of 14%) 1.7% of the UK market. That shows the scale of the loss for Ireland. In monetary terms we have to "find" replacement customers inside FTA's for a small amount of money, so the damage to Ireland is far less than the UK in my opinion.



So yes Ireland will be damaged, I've posted that multiple times in previous posts over the past year, no secret.



I can see your not keen to discuss/speculate where you think the negotiations will go, nor do you seem interested in what others think on the subject. It seems the only interest is in the mantra's "get brexit done" or "leave means leave" to "get our sovereignty back" so the UK can "leave the corrupt USSE". But what does all those catchy slogans mean, nobody knows or seems to care. It seems a major decision that experts believe could greatly damage the UK is being gambled on, well, nobody really knows.

Really Gerry how long has the Irish times been part of the U.K. Press printing euro myths.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/uk-ireland-flights-will-be-grounded-without-post-brexit-deal-1.3571311">https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.3571311">https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/uk-ireland-flights-will-be-grounded-without-post-brexit-deal-1.3571311

[GerryT]

You can guess all you like Gerry,like I said lets see what transpires.



I remember you after listening to Leo saying that we wouldn't be allowed to fly any where or even fly over eu lands,what happened that and are you happy you were lied to.



Are you worried that if we go without a deal ireland will suffer badly,is that a secret?

Not me, I said the total opposite. There are international rules preventing countries from preventing flights pass through countries. What I did say is a UK airline could fly in and out of the EU but under a hard brexit or without the agreement a UK won't be able to fly into the EU and then onto another EU destination. Plus Leo never said this, just more UK press printing euro-myths.



Yes Ireland and other EU countries will suffer, but there's very little we can do about it, the UK unilaterally decided to weaken the trading relationship. On the plus side Ireland is not a very large economy, about 14% of the UK's which makes it easier to find replacement markets for losses due to brexit in monetary value. Secondly we see barriers introduced to one market the UK-which represents nearly 12% of our exports.

On the other hand the UK is seeing barriers to ALL markets and while some FTA's will be concluded quickly (less than 5 yrs) it will be a small percentage of the UK exports.

The UK exports to the EU represents about 40$ of total UK exports. That's the UK export risk with the EU, if we put Ireland's export risk to the UK, in terms of the UK economy it would represent (12% of 14%) 1.7% of the UK market. That shows the scale of the loss for Ireland. In monetary terms we have to "find" replacement customers inside FTA's for a small amount of money, so the damage to Ireland is far less than the UK in my opinion.



So yes Ireland will be damaged, I've posted that multiple times in previous posts over the past year, no secret.



I can see your not keen to discuss/speculate where you think the negotiations will go, nor do you seem interested in what others think on the subject. It seems the only interest is in the mantra's "get brexit done" or "leave means leave" to "get our sovereignty back" so the UK can "leave the corrupt USSE". But what does all those catchy slogans mean, nobody knows or seems to care. It seems a major decision that experts believe could greatly damage the UK is being gambled on, well, nobody really knows.

[cromwell]

Cromwell, I am trying very very hard to be patient with you here. Truly, I am.  But you are sitting here telling me that you expect that the British service industry will carry on as before. Seriously, where are you getting that from ?



You say you oppose BRINO ....so how in Christ's name do you expect the services industry will carry on as before ? What the hell are you talking about ? If you oppose BRINO, then you oppose regulatory alignment, and that means you support a total change in the services industry. Diverging from EU financial regulation means total change — complete and utter change — if not then its just the BRINO that you say that you oppose.



Like I said, I am making all effort to be patient with you here.... but you are simultaneously arguing that you expect financial services to continue as before, while also advocating that BRINO should be avoided even though BRINO is literally the only way that Services could continue as before. You are not making sense. I say that in sincerity rather than as an attempt to just demean your views — you literally just aren't making any sense.

Well thanks Conor my old mate,I'll try your patience no longer but will patiently wait and see what my countries govt and the eu cook up first though as you say that make no sense.....to you at least. :hattip

[Thomas]

Blimey, Gerry has gotten there at last. Three years behind everyone else but he has finally twigged  :clbrt:  :clbrt:  :clbrt:  :clbrt:

 ::

[Thomas]

As for Thomas, you're yapping at me for discussing the potential deficiencies of the post Brexit relationship with the EU and yet in the above post a few pages back you were doing the same bloody thing.



Seriously, a few of you need to sit back and take a breath before posting. You're all responding with counterpoints to things I am not saying.

 ::



Political nuance goes right over your head doggy doesnt it?



Just making sure bojo doesnt stitch the anglo brexiters up , and they get brexit instead of some ECJ , FOM ,CU ,  Bill paying stitch up which wasnt what they voted for .



You on the other hand continue like a broken down record re running argument after argument from the last four years to try and stop engerlund from leaving the eu , or at least BRINO.

[Conchúr]

Conor afaik I have only ever responded to your posts politely and haven't called you names,I never said you were arrogant that's out of your own head.



I have told you what I would like for us but you insist it is a generalisation,I expect our service industry will carry on as before the eu may well wish to block that won't they?



Why you expect answers when all I am saying is let's see how the negotiations go we will all have more detail than can be discussed.



And to answer one question no I don't want bankers given  a free reign here in Europe or anywhere else......does that answer your question?

 

Cromwell, I am trying very very hard to be patient with you here. Truly, I am.  But you are sitting here telling me that you expect that the British service industry will carry on as before. Seriously, where are you getting that from ?



You say you oppose BRINO ....so how in Christ's name do you expect the services industry will carry on as before ? What the hell are you talking about ? If you oppose BRINO, then you oppose regulatory alignment, and that means you support a total change in the services industry. Diverging from EU financial regulation means total change — complete and utter change — if not then its just the BRINO that you say that you oppose.



Like I said, I am making all effort to be patient with you here.... but you are simultaneously arguing that you expect financial services to continue as before, while also advocating that BRINO should be avoided even though BRINO is literally the only way that Services could continue as before. You are not making sense. I say that in sincerity rather than as an attempt to just demean your views — you literally just aren't making any sense.

[cromwell]

You say if you fail to get a deal that we'll go without one, to me it comes across that failing to get a deal wouldn't be such an issue, you'll just go without one. Are you worried about WTO, do you think it's critical for the UK to get a Deal or are you happy to go with WTO if the deal on offer is not acceptable. Or is this a big secret.

You can guess all you like Gerry,like I said lets see what transpires.



I remember you after listening to Leo saying that we wouldn't be allowed to fly any where or even fly over eu lands,what happened that and are you happy you were lied to.



Are you worried that if we go without a deal ireland will suffer badly,is that a secret?

[Borchester]

You say if you fail to get a deal that we'll go without one, to me it comes across that failing to get a deal wouldn't be such an issue, you'll just go without one.

Blimey, Gerry has gotten there at last. Three years behind everyone else but he has finally twigged  :clbrt:  :clbrt:  :clbrt:  :clbrt:

[GerryT]

Still at it Gerry,how are your comprehension skills? I said if we get no deal we'l go without one,where in any of that other than your imagination is happy?

You say if you fail to get a deal that we'll go without one, to me it comes across that failing to get a deal wouldn't be such an issue, you'll just go without one. Are you worried about WTO, do you think it's critical for the UK to get a Deal or are you happy to go with WTO if the deal on offer is not acceptable. Or is this a big secret.

[cromwell]

Cromwell, I'm not asking you to outline the UK's negotiating position. For the love of God, I am asking you what you would like to see from the future relationship. I have literally stripped this argument all the way back to the most straightforward thing imaginable — what you, as a person of independent thought and desire, want for your country's economy ? In this instance, I have given the example of deregulation and the aspiration of some Brexiteers out there that a deregulated London could undercut the EU and become a sort of Singapore-like centre. Do you have any thoughts on this ? What would you like to see become of the London Services economy — and indeed do you think that a Singapore-upon-Thames enhances or damages the prospects of the wider UK (such as the cities of Manchester, Edinburgh etc)?



The accusations of EU red tape holding back the U.K. economy has been one of the ultimate hinges of the Eurosceptic movement. Boris is promising regulatory divergence and I don't imagine he or his Eurosceptic backers in government and Parliament plans diverge on the basis of making the UK more tightly regulated than the EU. So with that in mind, how do you feel about London bankers being less accountable in an environment of lower regulation ? Is the potentially high profitability worth it?



 

Finally ....





As for the "you're stupid" thing.  You know, I have posted on here for quite some time and a lot of the responses to my posts are laden with asinine attacks on my apparent lack of intellect or awareness. Just yesterday I believe I was called a 'numbnuts' and 'clueless', oh and an elusive character who unquestioningly adores EU propaganda or something like that.  Despite the asinine posts, I respond to everyone fully and try to respond with manners and respect — focusing on the substantive points they make rather than trying to slag them off. I don't call them names, I don't hide behind little jibes, and where I criticise their views I try do it without insult (and indeed I provide explanations for my criticism).  And yet.....despite all this.....despite the fact that I literally get called a clueless numbnuts and mocked, you somehow contrive to spin all this as me being the arrogant one who is trying to make others look stupid. I have literally been trying to get you to actually bloody well tell me what your opinions are and it's like pulling teeth — and yet even then, when I am making an effort to understand your thoughts and aspirations — somehow I am being dismissive.



Pull the other one my friend.

Conor afaik I have only ever responded to your posts politely and haven't called you names,I never said you were arrogant that's out of your own head.



I have told you what I would like for us but you insist it is a generalisation,I expect our service industry will carry on as before the eu may well wish to block that won't they?



Why you expect answers when all I am saying is let's see how the negotiations go we will all have more detail than can be discussed.



And to answer one question no I don't want bankers given  a free reign here in Europe or anywhere else......does that answer your question?

[T00ts]

Has life become the EU version of Groundhog Day?   :brd:

[Conchúr]

Of course it's general,the negotiations haven't started yet really they're still exchanging the odd insult.







No lets not stick with services,you want to know what I want,best deal possible on all fronts.....Gerry tells me I'm in for a shock if I'm expecting a good deal and that its all our fault for leaving.

You want detail? well like I say lets see how the negotiations progress you want me to lay out  in detail can you give me the EU position in detail?



Whilst this is a debating forum we need a clearer picture of both sides positions otherwise I might as well say I want everything we had before but leave out the bits I don't like then you'll say aha typical brexiteer cherry picking unrealistic expectations all dressed up to avoid what is really meant.....you're stupid.

Cromwell, I'm not asking you to outline the UK's negotiating position. For the love of God, I am asking you what you would like to see from the future relationship. I have literally stripped this argument all the way back to the most straightforward thing imaginable — what you, as a person of independent thought and desire, want for your country's economy ? In this instance, I have given the example of deregulation and the aspiration of some Brexiteers out there that a deregulated London could undercut the EU and become a sort of Singapore-like centre. Do you have any thoughts on this ? What would you like to see become of the London Services economy — and indeed do you think that a Singapore-upon-Thames enhances or damages the prospects of the wider UK (such as the cities of Manchester, Edinburgh etc)?



The accusations of EU red tape holding back the U.K. economy has been one of the ultimate hinges of the Eurosceptic movement. Boris is promising regulatory divergence and I don't imagine he or his Eurosceptic backers in government and Parliament plans diverge on the basis of making the UK more tightly regulated than the EU. So with that in mind, how do you feel about London bankers being less accountable in an environment of lower regulation ? Is the potentially high profitability worth it?



 

Finally ....





As for the "you're stupid" thing.  You know, I have posted on here for quite some time and a lot of the responses to my posts are laden with asinine attacks on my apparent lack of intellect or awareness. Just yesterday I believe I was called a 'numbnuts' and 'clueless', oh and an elusive character who unquestioningly adores EU propaganda or something like that.  Despite the asinine posts, I respond to everyone fully and try to respond with manners and respect — focusing on the substantive points they make rather than trying to slag them off. I don't call them names, I don't hide behind little jibes, and where I criticise their views I try do it without insult (and indeed I provide explanations for my criticism).  And yet.....despite all this.....despite the fact that I literally get called a clueless numbnuts and mocked, you somehow contrive to spin all this as me being the arrogant one who is trying to make others look stupid. I have literally been trying to get you to actually bloody well tell me what your opinions are and it's like pulling teeth — and yet even then, when I am making an effort to understand your thoughts and aspirations — somehow I am being dismissive.



Pull the other one my friend.

[cromwell]

But see Cromwell, this is where it all gets a little frustrating. It's rather easy to constantly say "this is what I voted for" when you adopt a position of giving very little away as to what you want until the deed is done.  Ultimately, it just means that people double down and convince themselves that this is what they voted for. You say 'BRINO we walk away' and how the UK will just head off without a deal. That's great but it's also very very general.  

Of course it's general,the negotiations haven't started yet really they're still exchanging the odd insult.

So ... let's stick with Services for now.  



What do you think ? What do you want for your county's economy from the future relationship

No lets not stick with services,you want to know what I want,best deal possible on all fronts.....Gerry tells me I'm in for a shock if I'm expecting a good deal and that its all our fault for leaving.

You want detail? well like I say lets see how the negotiations progress you want me to lay out  in detail can you give me the EU position in detail?



Whilst this is a debating forum we need a clearer picture of both sides positions otherwise I might as well say I want everything we had before but leave out the bits I don't like then you'll say aha typical brexiteer cherry picking unrealistic expectations all dressed up to avoid what is really meant.....you're stupid.

[Conchúr]

Still at it Gerry,how are your comprehension skills? I said if we get no deal we'l go without one,where in any of that other than your imagination is happy?

But see Cromwell, this is where it all gets a little frustrating. It's rather easy to constantly say "this is what I voted for" when you adopt a position of giving very little away as to what you want until the deed is done.  Ultimately, it just means that people double down and convince themselves that this is what they voted for. You say 'BRINO we walk away' and how the UK will just head off without a deal. That's great but it's also very very general.  



So ... let's stick with Services for now.  Do you think the UK should press hard for a deal on Services even though this might complicate the negotiations ? Without a deal, the UK will not be bound by any EU demands and will be free to undercut the EU to leverage advantage. On the other hand, the EU will also not be bound by any UK demands and can simply allow UK access temporarily while gradually tightening that over time and at its own pace. Or of course, should the UK simply agree to regulatory alignment on Services which would preserve a level playing field in Europe and avoid a potential 'race to the bottom' which might prove mutually detrimental and drive busines back to the stability of New York or elsewhere ?



What about the vision of Singapore-upon-Thames? Do you want financial services to be deregulated to undercut the EU?  Bear in mind that the Brexit vote was often held up as the ordinary man kicking the fatcats in the teeth. Well, deregulation would make it easier for fatcats to act riskily, knowing that they are now less accountable.  The advantage? Maybe it would be highly profitable for a while at least, but then one day the shit hits the fan and Mr Ordinary Pension Saver / Homeowner / Employee takes the hit? Mr Banker didn't break any rules in this deregulated world so tough shit Mr Ordinary Man.  Mr Banker can go off and just do it again, free from being answerable to any regulatory authority, while Mr Ordinary Man loses everything.



What do you think ? What do you want for your county's economy from the future relationship ?