Hungary and Poland could lose €100 billion after EU ruling

[johnofgwent]

Tbh Gerry you should buy a bus and put your anti brexit slogans on it.

I might be able to sell him one. It's already in his beloved EU and awaiting a paint job...

[GerryT]

Australia locked down tighter than a nun's proverbial's and barely had a death in the first 9 months, they still had their tough patch like everyone.
It's not even up for discussion that the U.K. had the best reaction and are now one of a tiny few, if not the only country back to normal.

Seriously, most people I know think the UK's response was very very poor. The only thing that was quick was the approval of AZ vaccine. But within months the majority of EU countries had their vaccine roll out back in line with the UK. But prior to that it was bad decision after bad decision and that was one of the key reasons your death rate is so bad, your an island nation, your numbers should be far less than countries on the main land.

Ireland is also nearly back to normal, our mask restrictions are lifter on Sunday and I think that's all restrictions lifted. Personally I think its a big mistake, the head of the WHO has warned against this and fears a more serious strain of covid can't be ruled out and mask removing is a highly risky action. Just because the UK or Ireland is lifting all restrictions isn't necessarily a time for celebration.  Consider that the UK death rate per week is now over 71,000 and it was below 50,000. Ireland peaked at 126 deaths last week, it has been below 100. The UK population is about 13 times that of Ireland, your good with numbers. So do you think this is the time for the UK to remove all restrictions ?  is this removal of restrictions a message, "fu*k people", just like he said about business, which he is also doing.

As for Australia, they did nothing for a long time and they got hit hard, no planning there.

[Nick]

What started this was the following comment
It was a reference of UK v EU on covid response.
Nick tried to squeeze in European countries, when we were looking at EU. But either way, using your source, then out of 48 European countries the UK had 24 countries do better than them in the response to Covid. Do they shout about how great they were in responding to Covid, no, that's a UK pastime.  My point is the UK didn't have a fantastic, world beating covid response, far from it. In the world it had 194 countries do better than the UK out of 226 countries, that's not world beating. 

Australia locked down tighter than a nun's proverbial's and barely had a death in the first 9 months, they still had their tough patch like everyone. 
It's not even up for discussion that the U.K. had the best reaction and are now one of a tiny few, if not the only country back to normal. 

[Thomas]

 They forget the recent debacle of Covid vaccines where we left the EU standing at the gates of confusion while they talked ad nauseum with little or no action

spot on toots. I remember discussing it on here well.

The  EU vaccine scandal was one of the biggest pr disasters that has befallen the brussells bureaucrats over recent years.  Undoubtedly the uk government left them standing at the gates .

[GerryT]

I make it a couple less, but close
Bulgaria, Bosnia, Hungary, N Macedonia, Montenegro, Croatia, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania, San Marino, Lithuania, Slovenia, Gibraltar, Poland, Latvia, Moldova, Belgium, Italy, Greece, Ukraine, Russia
UK number 22

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

What started this was the following comment

They forget the recent debacle of Covid vaccines where we left the EU standing at the gates of confusion while they talked ad nauseum with little or no action, eventually getting rather cross when suddenly they realised that the UK had got there first. How many lives were lost by their pique and especially Macron's. Brussels - the big puffed up self important extra layer of Government - what a complete waste they are.

It was a reference of UK v EU on covid response.
Nick tried to squeeze in European countries, when we were looking at EU. But either way, using your source, then out of 48 European countries the UK had 24 countries do better than them in the response to Covid. Do they shout about how great they were in responding to Covid, no, that's a UK pastime.  My point is the UK didn't have a fantastic, world beating covid response, far from it. In the world it had 194 countries do better than the UK out of 226 countries, that's not world beating.  

[Barry]

No it's because of the UK poor response to covid, you can demonstrate that 23 countries claim yes ?

I make it a couple less, but close
Bulgaria, Bosnia, Hungary, N Macedonia, Montenegro, Croatia, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania, San Marino, Lithuania, Slovenia, Gibraltar, Poland, Latvia, Moldova, Belgium, Italy, Greece, Ukraine, Russia
UK number 22

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[cromwell]

No it's because of the UK poor response to covid, you can demonstrate that 23 countries claim yes ?

Tbh Gerry you should buy a bus and put your anti brexit slogans on it. 

[GerryT]

That's cause the UK counts deaths with Covid and not necessarily from Covid.
BTW we will have zero restrictions in a matter of days, with numbers falling all the time, in Italy you can't book into a hotel if your jab was more than 180 days ago.

23 European countries with more deaths / population than the UK

No it's because of the UK poor response to covid, you can demonstrate that 23 countries claim yes ?

[T00ts]

Think you'll find Nov 21 is Q4.

So you have no answer then.

Where's the damage Gerry?

Haven't you got it yet Nick? We are going to keel over with a death of a thousand cuts delivered over the next 20 or 30 years or more! The supposition is that we will stay still enough for the normally lumbering EU to catch us! Poor remainers think that the current situation is permanent. We have hardly started yet.

[Nick]

So what, that's the case for the EU q4 in '21.

Think you'll find Nov 21 is Q4.

Open your eyes.

So you have no answer then.

Where's the damage Gerry?

[GerryT]

You clearly didn't look at the post or you wouldn't respond with such rubbish.
Look at #4,5,6,7 they haven't done what you put in your big list of companies LEAVING the UK.
The people going to the EU are EU nationals returning home, JEEZ!!

This is hard going. You asked me:
But after asking 3 times you still haven't showed me where the U.K. is suffering from Brexit.

I gave you two lists. Leaving doesn't mean closing shop. You need to be more Honest in your debating, business leaving the UK can be all or partial, if it's because of brexit its bad.

4 AIG to set up new base in Luxembourg to service EU business :
Financial times so behind paywall. AIG now have two operations in Europe, one in the UK for just UK business and one in the EU for EU and Swiss business. Or are you saying that's not happening ?
5 Lush - 80 jobs moved
6 Liberty insurance - did open in EU for its EU business, it remains in London for the local market
7 HIscox insurance - as above

Or does it only count when a company shuts up shop in the UK, is that the metric ?
With time the EU will remove more and more business from the UK, it just has to change regulations and access to EU markets. This will be done slowly slowly slowly. A thousand cuts. No damage to EU business with a cliff edge, but when you look back or 10, 20 or 50 yrs you'll see the damage done.
For now just work with the list of hundreds of examples of suffering.

[GerryT]

The UK economy is now back to Pre-Covid levels which also means it's above Pre-Brexit levels. So where ever the UK has gone down it has gone up in other places, which is hardly surprising seeing as we left the EU.

So what, that's the case for the EU q4 in '21. The UK had the largest fall in 2020, the great bounce in '21 doesn't make it a world beater. Leaving wasn't a sharp hit, introducing customs checks is phased, there was some introduced in Jan and more to come later this yr.  Do you think it was a cliff edge. The only people saying that were brexiteers, like Thomas the strawman. It's a death by a thousand cuts. Give it a couple of yrs after full checks have been implemented, that is if the UK can stop delaying introducing them.

So again, seeing as the economy hasn't gone down where is the UK suffering? We have just left the EU, some businesses that failed to prepare have obviously suffered (tough), but the that prepared and the businesses that have started trading on the back of new opportunities have boomed.

I gave you hundreds of examples, their real, we can start at the top of the list and take one a day, we can debate the validity of each over the next 2 years if you want.

Where is the suffering Gerry?

Open your eyes.

[Nick]

You really are blinkered, Companies in the UK didn't close, they opened in the EU. They now have companies in the EU where they didn't before. That means MORE jobs, tax in the EU and LESS jobs tax in the UK. The business the above list did in the EU is now in the EU (that will prob confuse you).

It doesn't matter what is shown to you, you just say, didn't see it, it never happened, unreal.

You clearly didn't look at the post or you wouldn't respond with such rubbish.
Look at #4,5,6,7 they haven't done what you put in your big list of companies LEAVING the UK.
The people going to the EU are EU nationals returning home, JEEZ!!

[Nick]

Yes, how many lives were lost.  Do you think the UK response to covid, looking at lives lost was a success when compared to others ?
The vaccine roll out, restrictions and anything to do with Covid was decided upon by each member state. The only "win" the UK had was in approving AZ before the EU, but the UK still didn't get its population vaccinated before other EU countries, such as IRL which overtook the UK.

Deaths in IRL 6,452 population 5million = 1 death in 775 people.
Deaths in UK 161,000 population 67million = 1 death in 416 people.

Nearly twice the death rate to your next door neighbour and Italy was worse but they were hit very badly at the start, Germany 1 in 682, Spain 1 in 480 and they had it bad early also. You think the EU was slow and the UK world beating ?  If Johnson had not gone for heard immunity at the start and then removing restrictions at Christmas those numbers might not have been so bad. But he loves a party.

The UK shouldn't be feeling great about their response to covid, it was bad, really bad. But for about 3 months, taking a risk on authorising a drug not fully tested, you felt like kings. Look at the full picture.

That's cause the UK counts deaths with Covid and not necessarily from Covid.
BTW we will have zero restrictions in a matter of days, with numbers falling all the time, in Italy you can't book into a hotel if your jab was more than 180 days ago.

23 European countries with more deaths / population than the UK

[GerryT]

Oh yes, your big list!!
I started looking at it a while a go and this is how far I got before I realised it was nonsense.

You really are blinkered, Companies in the UK didn't close, they opened in the EU. They now have companies in the EU where they didn't before. That means MORE jobs, tax in the EU and LESS jobs tax in the UK. The business the above list did in the EU is now in the EU (that will prob confuse you).

It doesn't matter what is shown to you, you just say, didn't see it, it never happened, unreal.