Can Russia be stopped?

[cromwell]

And all that rant really confirms is simply what I and some others here have told you over the years, that you swallow the media bilge uncritically and then cry after the event that you have been lied too yet again. Guess what, while people like you let them get away with it, it will happen to you again and again and again....

Not a rant,fact and try saying what you say but criticising the system in Vlads Russia and see where that gets you.

I don't swallow anything but at least have the critical eye you lack in your defence of Vlad and Xi's wonder world.

[Sampanviking]

Embarrassment you say,well what could be more so than presenting doctored footage to discredit the west not just here but in the wider world it's done.

Then we have a malignant Basil Fawlty in the shape of Vladimir Putin,don't mention the war.....it's a special military operation don't you know well a few have in Russia and been beaten and arrested for their troubles.

You want to be an apologist for Vlad that's fine it's a free country.....well at least despite its failings much freer than Russia where ordinary people like you can slag off the west where people like Peter Hitchens can give an alternative view or that Yank general you quoted.

Where are the critics of Putin? in jail dead or poisoned.....still that didn't happen did it those two Russians were never in Salisbury and the place was contaminated and people died in what you call a false flag operation designed to discredit that nice cuddly Mr Putin.

The west has its failings surely but those people dead dying or fleeing as refugees are doing so as a result of Vlad,you and any other apologists on here dress it up how you like but that's fact for you.

And all that rant really confirms is simply what I and some others here have told you over the years, that you swallow the media bilge uncritically and then cry after the event that you have been lied too yet again. Guess what, while people like you let them get away with it, it will happen to you again and again and again....

[cromwell]

Really? Which ones?
Kharkov? Mariupol? These are Russian cities, populated with Russian speaking ethnic Russians, in territory that was formally part of Russia itself. Mariupol is part of Donetsk, one the regions that declared independence. Mariupol was part of that break away until it was recaptured, near the beginning of the first fighting phase in 2014. The Ukrainian troops inside are not guarding these places, they are an occupying them.
They regard the locals as hostile and have little qualms about causing them harm or using them as human shields. The Russians don't want to flatten these cities, this is why so few cities have been stormed and where storming is taking place in the Donbass, most is being done by the DPR and LPR militias (who are tough battled hardened little b's on account of being at war every day for the last eight years).

From day one MSM reporting has thrown facts and logic out of the window and substituted news with one hysteria fit after another. Its an embarrassment.

Embarrassment you say,well what could be more so than presenting doctored footage to discredit the west not just here but in the wider world it's done.

Then we have a malignant Basil Fawlty in the shape of Vladimir Putin,don't mention the war.....it's a special military operation don't you know well a few have in Russia and been beaten and arrested for their troubles.

You want to be an apologist for Vlad that's fine it's a free country.....well at least despite its failings much freer than Russia where ordinary people like you can slag off the west where people like Peter Hitchens can give an alternative view or that Yank general you quoted.

Where are the critics of Putin? in jail dead or poisoned.....still that didn't happen did it those two Russians were never in Salisbury and the place was contaminated and people died in what you call a false flag operation designed to discredit that nice cuddly Mr Putin.

The west has its failings surely but those people dead dying or fleeing as refugees are doing so as a result of Vlad,you and any other apologists on here dress it up how you like but that's fact for you.

[Sampanviking]

Yes I'm sure and much is made of the Azov and Nazis,extremist's sure

There's extremists in every country doesn't equate to the whole Ukrainian population,just as Putin is a murderous bastard doesn't equate to the whole Russian population.

There's little doubt that Putin intends to raze cities and towns to the ground.

Really? Which ones?
Kharkov? Mariupol? These are Russian cities, populated with Russian speaking ethnic Russians, in territory that was formally part of Russia itself. Mariupol is part of Donetsk, one the regions that declared independence. Mariupol was part of that break away until it was recaptured, near the beginning of the first fighting phase in 2014. The Ukrainian troops inside are not guarding these places, they are an occupying them.
They regard the locals as hostile and have little qualms about causing them harm or using them as human shields. The Russians don't want to flatten these cities, this is why so few cities have been stormed and where storming is taking place in the Donbass, most is being done by the DPR and LPR militias (who are tough battled hardened little b's on account of being at war every day for the last eight years).

From day one MSM reporting has thrown facts and logic out of the window and substituted news with one hysteria fit after another. Its an embarrassment.

[Sheepy]

This war is only going to end in one of two ways.

Vlads biggest mistake was believing a word western leaders told him they would do in the first place not even the people they talk into voting for them on the whole believe a single word of it. Then as he has realised once found out they are no longer your friend and it is all your fault. 

[cromwell]

Really? you sure? You believe all that these guys post?

What is true is that further up in the Donbas there are over sixty thousand Ukrainian troops encircled by Russian and DPR/LPR militias. These Ukrainian troops represent about half of the Ukrainian army, certainly most of its best and best equipped units and these are facing certain destruction.

Likewise many thousands more are in Mariupol, including a large number of the infamous Azov brigade, which operate under the banner and philosophy of the Wartime pro Nazis leader Stepan Bandera
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

Now obviously I have no idea really about what has happened in any particular instance, but I do know that the loss of such a large number of troops would mean the end of the war in Ukraine and possible the end of the Ukraine itself.
These people and their leaders are therefore desperate, have nothing to lose and the only real hope of salvation they have is direct intervention by NATO.
It is therefore not a surprise, that as their plight gets worse, their allegations of atrocities get ever more shrill and outrageous.
Like I said, I cannot vouch for any particular incident, but I do know that as time goes by, the bags of salt with which such claims are taken, needs to increase dramatically, day by day.

Yes I'm sure and much is made of the Azov and Nazis,extremist's sure

There's extremists in every country doesn't equate to the whole Ukrainian population,just as Putin is a murderous bastard doesn't equate to the whole Russian population. 

There's little doubt that Putin intends to raze cities and towns to the ground.

[Sampanviking]

Maternity hospital destroyed at Mariupol.

Despicable.

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501579520633102349%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

Really? you sure? You believe all that these guys post?

What is true is that further up in the Donbas there are over sixty thousand Ukrainian troops encircled by Russian and DPR/LPR militias. These Ukrainian troops represent about half of the Ukrainian army, certainly most of its best and best equipped units and these are facing certain destruction.

Likewise many thousands more are in Mariupol, including a large number of the infamous Azov brigade, which operate under the banner and philosophy of the Wartime pro Nazis leader Stepan Bandera
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

Now obviously I have no idea really about what has happened in any particular instance, but I do know that the loss of such a large number of troops would mean the end of the war in Ukraine and possible the end of the Ukraine itself.
These people and their leaders are therefore desperate, have nothing to lose and the only real hope of salvation they have is direct intervention by NATO.
It is therefore not a surprise, that as their plight gets worse, their allegations of atrocities get ever more shrill and outrageous.
Like I said, I cannot vouch for any particular incident, but I do know that as time goes by, the bags of salt with which such claims are taken, needs to increase dramatically, day by day.

[cromwell]

Maternity hospital destroyed at Mariupol.

Despicable.

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501579520633102349%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

[srb7677]

Whilst in some ways similar to the Czech crisis of 1938-39, the actual military situation is much more akin to the Winter War of 1939-40 between the USSR and Finland. The Russians invaded Finland, expecting an easy conquest and even had a puppet government at the ready. Yet the Finns, though heavily outnumbered and outgunned fought so fiercely against much more ill-motivated Russians that the latter were held to a slogging match suffering heavy casualties. They did make slow progress, eventually breaking through the Mannerheim line defences, but with the threat of western allied intervention they decided to negotiate with the legitimate Finnish government. Finland was forced to make concessions as the price of peace but retained most of it's territory and political independence. 

If the Ukrainians can continue to resist as fiercely as they have, and the west keeps piling on the pressure economically whilst supplying Ukraine with arms, something similar might end up happening. A peace agreement that both can claim as a success might well include Ukraine accepting and recognising the loss of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk, and aggreeing never to join any military bloc including NATO, and never to station offensive missles there, in return for continued political indepencence and the right if it chooses to join the EU. Perhaps a free trade agreement between Ukraine and Russia can be thrown in as a sweetener.

This war is only going to end in one of two ways. Either some sort of agreement similar to the above. Or a total Russian victory and occupation. The Ukrainians  militarily, and the rest of the world economically, need to make the latter so costly that the Russians are prepared to settle for the former. But for this to work the Ukrainians themselves need to make some concessions to preserve their freedom.

[Sampanviking]

I clicked on that link, not very pretty video in the thread showing the pensioners.

The exact location is 50°27'49"N 29°47'47"E. By Feb 28th the Russians were in this area.

This map from 2nd March says otherwise
The solid red line that bulges West of Kiev is the Russians starting point for that day with the hatched lines being the directions and position into which they were pushing.
Its still a good way north of where the incident took place.
There are also a very clear lack of the White Character Designations used by the Russian Forces. Not even the very badly painted ones that some Ukrainian disinformation videos have resorted to.

[Groo]

Some of the very clever. tekki, bright young things on Sino Defense Forum went to work on this video. Apparently all such videos come with date stamps and location information in terms of Long and Lat co-ordinates. They were able to show that the video was taken on February 28th at a location which was far away from any operational position of the Russian Army. They backed up the position with Google Earth shots showing and confirming the location. They also went to task on the BMP and its markings.
Overall they thought it was a Ukrainian BMP not a Russian one.

I clicked on that link, not very pretty video in the thread showing the pensioners.

The exact location is 50°27'49"N 29°47'47"E. By Feb 28th the Russians were in this area.

[Scott777]

Clearly this was concocted to discredit the west and its media,
Why is the real and original report crap,some people believe in climate change,is it crap because it doesn't fall into line with your thinking?

I suspect you wear a mask constantly,it's not physically visible but it prevents you seeing  a wider picture and little beyond preconceived opinions.

Im sure Vlad would find you useful........I'll say no more.

Not so much a criticism of the climate frenzy, as the need to report on silly performers.  If they didn't pretend to be dead, then no one could use it as they did.  Does it help with the climate?

[Sheepy]

Did they,and what did they think of the dead bodies that weren't dead in Vienna?

Dunno but have you ever noticed the world is full of things that want to kill you, including other human beings. 

[cromwell]

Some of the very clever. tekki, bright young things on Sino Defense Forum went to work on this video. Apparently all such videos come with date stamps and location information in terms of Long and Lat co-ordinates. They were able to show that the video was taken on February 28th at a location which was far away from any operational position of the Russian Army. They backed up the position with Google Earth shots showing and confirming the location. They also went to task on the BMP and its markings.
Overall they thought it was a Ukrainian BMP not a Russian one.

Did they,and what did they think of the dead bodies that weren't dead in Vienna? 

[Sampanviking]

https://twitter.com/hashtag/PutinHitler?src=hashtag_click

Really threatening car

Some of the very clever. tekki, bright young things on Sino Defense Forum went to work on this video. Apparently all such videos come with date stamps and location information in terms of Long and Lat co-ordinates. They were able to show that the video was taken on February 28th at a location which was far away from any operational position of the Russian Army. They backed up the position with Google Earth shots showing and confirming the location. They also went to task on the BMP and its markings.
Overall they thought it was a Ukrainian BMP not a Russian one.