Can Russia be stopped?

[cromwell]

Well it seems to me at least it is getting all one sided,the west have done things (well that makes it all right then) so?....and it's been pointed out too.

I know I'll list all the bad things the west has done to justify what Putin is doing.....not only that I'll regurgitate all his propaganda to to say this is all the wests fault too.

Self loathing? well to be more correct loathing your own country whilst proclaiming how clever you and he are.

Is my country perfect? No but I don't hate it like some on here do and their self proclsaimed superiority of thought which is quite pathetic really.

[Sampanviking]

So you do accept that Putin is causing a humanitarian crisis then?

Every war is a humanitarian crisis. There are many wars waging in the world today
There have been wars somewhere every day since the start of the new millenium
Many of them started by the US and poodles.
Many have gone on for many years
The world however carries on unperturbed

Russia starts one war (More properly joins in a long running existing one) it has lasted less than three weeks
West runs around in mad panic waving arms in air predicting the end of human civilisation, falling sky and opening ground.
So this is the great US New World Order, "Do as I say, not as I do" I say Feck U USA.

[Scott777]

The propoganda wars are in full flow it seems . Even if we  accept the EU upset the Russians with invites to Ukraine to join them , that the USA help in the production of bioweapons , that NATO membership to past parts of the USSR have given the Kremlin the right hump there is NO justification to bomb cities in the Ukraine . The Ukraine is /wasn't any threat to Russia

That's like saying Hitler wasn't a threat to Britain.  On his own, he wasn't.  But with the Nazis, he was.  The Ukraine, as part of NATO, and under the circumstances you have said, is definitely a threat.

[Sheepy]

China sits on the fence as it wishes to be #1 economy in the world, it is playing the mid to long game, Russia's economy is not worth shit. Once Russia loses its teeth which it is going to do very soon China will drop it like a hot potato.
Russia's economy and standing on the world stage has now been put back 40 years, only when they take their tinfoil hat off will they be accepted into the real world!! All you have to do is be able to count to ten and you're in, WOW!!

Well, that is a bit of a shocker then, you won't be able to turn up in town with your blue Rosette, because there won't be one. But then he wouldn't dare invade anyway, would he?

[Nick]

On the wider point, I think Irish MEP Clare Daly really sums it up nicely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbbMt4awp6A

You could easily add Israel and Palestine and the Saudi;s and Yemen into the same conversation.....

So you do accept that Putin is causing a humanitarian crisis then?

[Nick]

Why the feck would the Chinese do that? they have the matter of Taiwan and have signed up for three Russian gas pipelines while also reminding the rest of us they have an unbreakable bond with the Russians. They have a list of historical reasons for looking like they are sitting on the fence when it comes to believing a word the west says.

China sits on the fence as it wishes to be #1 economy in the world, it is playing the mid to long game, Russia's economy is not worth shit. Once Russia loses its teeth which it is going to do very soon China will drop it like a hot potato. 
Russia's economy and standing on the world stage has now been put back 40 years, only when they take their tinfoil hat off will they be accepted into the real world!! All you have to do is be able to count to ten and you're in, WOW!!

[Nick]

3) The prime target of this was to get the Russians out of Crimea and force them away form the Black Sea altogether. No doubt about that. To any prat who says that "Russia invaded the Crimea", the Russians were already there, and had been since the days of Catherine the Great. The Crimea was Russian through and through and so they took it back with the full consent of the local population.

So the Russians sent 40 miles of armoury and men to the borders of Ukraine, unprovoked, to get the Russians out of Crimea?
WTF are you smoking?

[Nick]

You will have to send Nick back out, telling us about those lying Commies, whereas the truth trumps a lie. You cannot do that sheepbrain, we will be seen as liars and manipulators of the truth. Who knew?

Well actually the Commies are not lying my ole Sheep-shshshearer 💩, Cambodian cable is showing CCTV, which is following the exact same narrative as the Bloated Broadcasting Corporation. Russia is targeting civilians and Putins days are numbered.

He has 3 choices:

Continue this war and make himself look even more stupid.
Retreat and make him self look even more stupid, or.
Push the button and for a very short time make himself look stupid. 

Only Putin wants this war, up til now he has 30 years and no legacy, maybe he's had the curly finger up his bum and discovers he's only got 6 months, maybe he wants Armageddon? If that's the case we have to hope his generals put a bullet in his head and come bearing gold, frankincense and myrrh!!

[Sampanviking]

On the wider point, I think Irish MEP Clare Daly really sums it up nicely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbbMt4awp6A

You could easily add Israel and Palestine and the Saudi;s and Yemen into the same conversation.....

[Sheepy]

China amplifies unsupported Russian claim of Ukraine biolabs (msn.com)
Which means the Chinese have had a look already.

[Sheepy]

China could speed that up  in condeming Putin instead of sitting on the fence

Why the feck would the Chinese do that? they have the matter of Taiwan and have signed up for three Russian gas pipelines while also reminding the rest of us they have an unbreakable bond with the Russians. They have a list of historical reasons for looking like they are sitting on the fence when it comes to believing a word the west says. 

[Groo]

Well the BBC has managed to avoid any mention of Nuland's admission yesterday and has carried on; on message, as before. The official reaction is that these facilities are simply medical research centers. It does beg the question that Tucker Carlson asked "so why are they funded by the US Department of Defense?"

To hear someone like Tucker (of all people) say, "What has it come to when you know that the US Government is lying to you and you have to go to the Russian and Chinese Governments to hear something close to the truth?" is nothing short of jaw dropping.

Tucker Carlson is pro Trump and would do/say anything to hurt Biden. He likes to raise his ever knowing eyebrows at any anti-Biden propaganda.

[Groo]

Well, we shall soon see what truth is in this.

"Russia is going to dump a load of frozen food on the United States tomorrow at 11 am by exposing U.S. support to Ukraine over the last 17 years for research into biological and chemical weapons."

"And in the process of securing them they have recovered a treasure trove of documents showing the United States has violated the international accord governing Chemical and Biological Weapons."

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/breaking-russia-convenes-un-security-council-meeting-present-biolab-evidence-friday-10/

That's written by Larry Johnston.

Not this Larry Johnston is it?

"Now I know it is not nice to gloat, and I should not be smugly chuckling to myself here, but there is a kind of irony I can't ignore in watching Larry Johnson implode in the national media.  Over time his blog (which has recently been removed from the internet) became a mecca of weird conspiracy theories and raving lunatic warnings.  Larry it seems, went way down the rabbit hole."

[Sampanviking]

Excellent post.......couldn't have put it better.

I hate this when I have so little time but I will respond you and Toots in the one reply

1) The moment the West started banning Russian media and now even any form of larger online Independent media, that contradicts the official western narrative, then all pretense of objectivity has just been thrown out of the window and we have left is gushing over sentimental propaganda laid on ultra thick and in a manner typified by the oozing slime presentation of Justin Webb.
If Goebels was alive today, he would weep with gratitude to see how his techniques have been honed to such utter perfection.

2) This war started in 2014 when Vicky Bio Lab Nuland started handing out tea and cookies while masterminding (paying for) The Maidan coup and replaced a neutral regime in Kiev with a rabidly anti Russian one.

3) The prime target of this was to get the Russians out of Crimea and force them away form the Black Sea altogether. No doubt about that. To any prat who says that "Russia invaded the Crimea", the Russians were already there, and had been since the days of Catherine the Great. The Crimea was Russian through and through and so they took it back with the full consent of the local population.

4) Other parts of the East of Ukraine also started to break away. These areas too were historically Russian, populated by Russian speaking ethnic Russians and who only had been put into the Ukraine as part of an administrative division of the Soviet Union.

5) These areas were immediately attacked by the Ukrainian army in 2014. Key areas such as Kharkov and other north eastern districts were crushed with a lot of damage and loss of civilian life at that time.

The Regions of Donetsk and Lughansk managed to organise themselves better based around the main cities, including the Donetsk port of Mariupol. Mariupol was stormed by the Ukrainian army and the Far Right Militias of Avoz and Right Sector, who are drawn from the West of the Country who have based themselves in the city ever since. The was heavy loss of life among the local defenders, including virtually the entire police force. The City has been under a virtual enemy occupation ever since. Espeically since the areas that the Ukrainians could not crush declared their independence shortly afterwards.

This move was very widely supported in the region and anyone who believes that these sentiments only stretched for fifty miles from the Russian border and then evaporated into staunch Ukrainian nationalism the other side of the military contact line, frankly needs treatment.
A very vicious war was then fought until the middle of 2015, when the UN approved Minsk agreement was signed, but never implemented by the Ukrainian side or supported in any way by their western backers. In short it was signed by Kiev in bad faith

6) The war ground along at low intensity for the next eight years, with the Ukrainian side only too happy to lob artillery into residential areas of the Donbas.

7) So finally the Russians have lost patience and decided to intervene once and for all.
But what have they actually done that has earned the hysterical reaction from the West

War against Fascism - Well we have fought such wars ourselves and we feel such wars are justified
Dealing with an Existential threat against our country - we have fought two such wars in the last twenty five years, both of which have been thousands of miles from our borders and we considered them justified. Russia is doing this just across its border.

Right to Protect. We have launched numerous missions under this heading in the last forty years and mostly on behalf of people that have no connection to us whatsoever and we consider them justified. Russia is acting in this way for its own kin across the border.

So how is there action any less justifiable than the missions we have undertaken?

Conduct of the war.
When the US attacks, they bomb from the air relentlessly for weeks and smash all civilian infrastructure, the level of civilian casualties are appalling, but of course the tame media airbushes such things out altogether.
When the ground troops go in, they shoot anything that they see come too close to them and do it without question.

By contrast the Russians advance is anything but a blitzkrieg. If anything they have been over cautious and prepared to take casualties and take risks rather than play safe. Less airstrikes and missiles have been launched by Russia in the last three weeks that the US unleashed in one day against Iraq, in either of the two wars.
Cities are not being stormed but surrounded and there are no constant mass moving barrages flattening entire cities. Which is why there is only a lot of talk about it and a lot of endlessly recycled footage shown with very little context.

The areas that Russia is fighting in are Russian areas full of Russian speaking people of Russian speaking heritage. When these people leave the warzone, they want to go to Russia. Those that find themselves in Russian controlled areas seem happy to simply stay put. Where cities are being stormed by ground troops, it is usually local forces from the Donbas that are doing it. Mariupol again being a case in point and yes the local populations are being used as human shields by an occupying Ukrainian army that do not give a damn about the welfare of the locals. If they did, they would move out of the urban areas and fight the Russians in the fields.

Anyway that all I can spend the time on.
At the end of the day the only reason we have this reaction is because its somebody else doing it and not us and clearly we have an exceptional right not available to anyone else in our brave new "Do as we say, not as we do" world.

I know I am wasting my time but.......

[cromwell]

The propoganda wars are in full flow it seems . Even if we  accept the EU upset the Russians with invites to Ukraine to join them , that the USA help in the production of bioweapons , that NATO membership to past parts of the USSR have given the Kremlin the right hump there is NO justification to bomb cities in the Ukraine . The Ukraine is /wasn't any threat to Russia

No excuse can be made that Putin is doing any credability whatsoever . The Western world as we call it can only watch on unprepared for the scenario of a nuclear power invading a friendly nation outside of the defence pact of NATO . Maybe just as well .

Russia can only be stopped from within . China could speed that up  in condeming Putin instead of sitting on the fence .

Excellent post.......couldn't have put it better.