Lib Dems set out roadmap to re join the EU

[B0ycey]

I am just telling you how it is, it will never happen, rule from Brussels will never be tolerated by the majority whatever bullshine the polls make up in some vain hope it can be reversed. Your belief is based on false hope, no point in putting any clearer, after all 3 elections and a referendum and you still think you are in with a shot. In all honesty the SNP is your last shot, but the voters in England will just happily give them the two fingers as well.

No. I am telling you how it is Sheepy. Remainers are the vote of the future and we are heading towards an era of time where the EU will showcase its worth. Don't look at today to understand the future. Dialectical Materialism is motion. Any EU military cooperation enhancement, the UK will want to be part of that because one thing the UK hates is being left behind. They haven't realised that we at best now are a medium player in the geopolitical game and I suspect their seat in the UN council clouds the reality. But when the EU becomes bigger, they will understand their place and then they will want to rejoin. Time Sheepy. Time. The opinion of the few Brexiteer hardliners left will be ignored in time.

[Sheepy]

Cameron was asking for special exceptions on the EU core principle of their four free movements SW. What he got was more than any other EU member would have had. But in any case, the EU are going to take their security seriously from now on and there is nothing we can do to shape that. In fact we will beg to be part of it. What Clegg said was perhaps true at the time. The only reason this cooperation has legs now was because it is Macrons vision and he is an elected leader AFTER Brexit. One of the reasons I support the EU, is because I have seen for a while now that we are heading towards a world of superstates. Perhaps America has seen that too. There must be a reason why they do and say what they do. They don't want to lose their hegemony. But the truth is they have already lost it. It is China, not America who are talking sense right now. It is China not America that will be instrumental in getting these peace talks to be a success. And they will do it by not stoking tensions but also not getting involved. America could be a key player if they actually address the crux of the war, which is NATO expansion. It would be helpful if they begin talks with Russia to at least understand their POV. If not they will be a hindrance, but ultimately under enough time, I see both Russia and Ukraine getting what they want out of talks anyway because China wants that and they are the hegemony. But in any case, getting back to my main point which is the EU, in the future China and America, and to some extent Russia too, will talk directly to the EU and they will not be interested in the UK at all. America has already shown us what the special relationship means by not giving us a trade deal and maintaining tariffs on steel and they are our biggest ally. What then for our voice towards Russia and China in a future with the EU as a military force? Not great. And the Tories won't like that. So in that sense even the Brexiteers will want to be a a limb on a big fish than a small fish in a pool full of sharks. Our future is back in the EU, Mark my words.

Wash rinse, repeat. After all it is a winning strategy. Until enough people say enough is enough. 

[B0ycey]

One of the points raised during the referendum was that of European security . That the lib dems Cleggy in particular was adament that there would be no joint EU forces ,'' a dangerous fantasy '' no less because he knew it was a vote loser .

Cameron went cap in hand to Brussels to try and get concessions that would sway the vote in remains favour . That he was sent home with his pigs head between his legs made Leave a real possibility and so it turned out . The lib dems are in cukoo land if they think we will re-join not even on the same terms as we left but with less say than the diminished one we had and probably having to join the euro along with handing our security amoung other things to European majority votes .

Cameron was asking for special exceptions on the EU core principle of their four free movements SW. What he got was more than any other EU member would have had. But in any case, the EU are going to take their security seriously from now on and there is nothing we can do to shape that. In fact we will beg to be part of it. What Clegg said was perhaps true at the time. The only reason this cooperation has legs now was because it is Macrons vision and he is an elected leader AFTER Brexit. One of the reasons I support the EU, is because I have seen for a while now that we are heading towards a world of superstates. Perhaps America has seen that too. There must be a reason why they do and say what they do. They don't want to lose their hegemony. But the truth is they have already lost it. It is China, not America who are talking sense right now. It is China not America that will be instrumental in getting these peace talks to be a success. And they will do it by not stoking tensions but also not getting involved. America could be a key player if they actually address the crux of the war, which is NATO expansion. It would be helpful if they begin talks with Russia to at least understand their POV. If not they will be a hindrance, but ultimately under enough time, I see both Russia and Ukraine getting what they want out of talks anyway because China wants that and they are the hegemony. But in any case, getting back to my main point which is the EU, in the future China and America, and to some extent Russia too, will talk directly to the EU and they will not be interested in the UK at all. America has already shown us what the special relationship means by not giving us a trade deal and maintaining tariffs on steel and they are our biggest ally. What then for our voice towards Russia and China in a future with the EU as a military force? Not great. And the Tories won't like that. So in that sense even the Brexiteers will want to be a a limb on a big fish than a small fish in a pool full of sharks. Our future is back in the EU, Mark my words.

[Streetwalker]

Indeed. I think now especially, leaving the EU was a massive mistake. The EU are going to address their security concerns and once they have done that, their global voice with become more prominent. I noticed that BoJo might not even get a seat in their next security conference. We certainly will have no vote on what they do in any case. But my guess is we will want to be part of it and hope for good will they let us in as a partner. But that isn't a certainty when the clown keeps on upsetting the Europeans. So I guess is any party that platforms for rejoining the EU might get some weight in their votes. The Lib Dems have always been the party of remain. And if the core principle of European security is spelt out to the electorate, it may well swing peoples vote into rejoining.

One of the points raised during the referendum was that of European security . That the lib dems Cleggy in particular was adament that there would be no joint EU forces ,'' a dangerous fantasy '' no less because he knew it was a vote loser .

Cameron went cap in hand to Brussels to try and get concessions that would sway the vote in remains favour . That he was sent home with his pigs head between his legs made Leave a real possibility and so it turned out . The lib dems are in cukoo land if they think we will re-join not even on the same terms as we left but with less say than the diminished one we had and probably having to join the euro along with handing our security amoung other things to European majority votes . 

[Sheepy]

What you talking about "never going to happen",? the polls have already swung in that favor and should a party who campaigns on rejoining wins a GE, we will then defacto have a referendum. I don't know how much you understand the last General Election, but remain won the popular vote. The issue was the vote split. Had Corbyn been pro Brexit like Johnson, we may even have had Swinson as PM. Imagine that. But in any case if the Lib Dems are the only party to campaign on rejoining, that is a massive advantage under FPTP. And we have a few more years of talking about European security to look forward to. So I rule nothing out.

I am just telling you how it is, it will never happen, rule from Brussels will never be tolerated by the majority whatever bullshine the polls make up in some vain hope it can be reversed. Your belief is based on false hope, no point in putting any clearer, after all 3 elections and a referendum and you still think you are in with a shot. In all honesty the SNP is your last shot, but the voters in England will just happily give them the two fingers as well. 

[B0ycey]

Never going to happen, about the same chance of Ukraine avoiding a war. The Westminster party cannot even understand why nobody will even turn up and vote for them.

What you talking about "never going to happen",? the polls have already swung in that favor and should a party who campaigns on rejoining wins a GE, we will then defacto have a referendum. I don't know how much you understand the last General Election, but remain won the popular vote. The issue was the vote split. Had Corbyn been pro Brexit like Johnson, we may even have had Swinson as PM. Imagine that. But in any case if the Lib Dems are the only party to campaign on rejoining, that is a massive advantage under FPTP. And we have a few more years of talking about European security to look forward to. So I rule nothing out.

[Sheepy]

Indeed. I think now especially, leaving the EU was a massive mistake. The EU are going to address their security concerns and once they have done that, their global voice with become more prominent. I noticed that BoJo might not even get a seat in their next security conference. We certainly will have no vote on what they do in any case. But my guess is we will want to be part of it and hope for good will they let us in as a partner. But that isn't a certainty when the clown keeps on upsetting the Europeans. So I guess is any party that platforms for rejoining the EU might get some weight in their votes. The Lib Dems have always been the party of remain. And if the core principle of European security is spelt out to the electorate, it may well swing peoples vote into rejoining.

Never going to happen, about the same chance of Ukraine avoiding a war. The Westminster party cannot even understand why nobody will even turn up and vote for them.

[B0ycey]

I think the most that any political party can do at this stage to be "open" to the idea of rejoining the EU.  To me it's obvious that leaving the EU has not been good for the people of Britain but that idea would need to become obvious to everyone, without other causes to conveniently blame it on, before 'Rejoin' becomes a mass movement.

Indeed. I think now especially, leaving the EU was a massive mistake. The EU are going to address their security concerns and once they have done that, their global voice with become more prominent. I noticed that BoJo might not even get a seat in their next security conference. We certainly will have no vote on what they do in any case. But my guess is we will want to be part of it and hope for good will they let us in as a partner. But that isn't a certainty when the clown keeps on upsetting the Europeans. So I guess is any party that platforms for rejoining the EU might get some weight in their votes. The Lib Dems have always been the party of remain. And if the core principle of European security is spelt out to the electorate, it may well swing peoples vote into rejoining.

[Sheepy]

I think the most that any political party can do at this stage to be "open" to the idea of rejoining the EU.  To me it's obvious that leaving the EU has not been good for the people of Britain but that idea would need to become obvious to everyone, without other causes to conveniently blame it on, before 'Rejoin' becomes a mass movement.

LOL now that was amusing Ducky, it cheered me up for the day, the great EU and Westminster party comeback via the power of the LibDems. 

[HDQQ]

I think the most that any political party can do at this stage to be "open" to the idea of rejoining the EU.  To me it's obvious that leaving the EU has not been good for the people of Britain but that idea would need to become obvious to everyone, without other causes to conveniently blame it on, before 'Rejoin' becomes a mass movement.

[Thomas]

And 45% Remain means 55% Brexit which is a 10% lead for the latter.

Im not claiming to be a master mathematician  borkie , but i think we are all well aware of that fact. It was me who posted the original poll.

https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/joining-staying-out-of-the-eu-referendum-voting-intention-20-february-2022/

It comes back to the earlier point that we were told of the economic horrors of Brexit.

Dont count your chickens yet. While we had the shenanigans by the anti democrats from 2016 - 2019 that delayed leaving , its only been just over a year now since we left the "transition period" , during which covid has largely smothered everything else.

The sniffles seems to have been cast aside now , and the huge increases caused by multiple factors , but largely unaddressed by the tories , are starting to come through and affect everyone.

The largest cost of living increase and fall in living standards they are calling it since the seventies , and if people start badly getting hit in the pocket , in part because of brexit , then i dont think too many are going to be happy to pay for a bunch of old boys walking around in their red coats dreaming its 1822.

A lot of Remainers believed it as did quite a few Brexiters. I know that I did. But the roof did not fall in, so I reckon in the event of a second referendum a lot of newly minted Brexiters will swagger off to the polls in graceless triumph and a few ex Remainers will sit it out, resulting in an even bigger vote for Brexit.

The Lib Dems are the Loony Tunes party.If there was a campaign to stick a hot poker up the nation's arse the Limp Dicks would support it. And they would pick up the usual oh sod it vote, but get nowhere near enough to get near the corridors of power.

Meanwhile, with the Russian Bear advancing across Europe and intend on having the Cossacks water their horses in the Thames, the best poor, silly Starmer can come up with is a row with J C Rowlings over Tranie toilets. I always had a quiet admiration for the often misguided, but usually stolid decency of old Labour, but the current party seems made up of a right bunch of head dicks

im not saying you are completely wrong, but just dont count your chickens yet.

We all know the fantasy peddled by the liberals , remember jo swinson as pm in waiting and all that.

Johnson and his party have a lot of troubles comeing down the track towards them , but as you say , the one and only bright thing in the horizon for him is the fact he is faced by keir starmer and the blairite labour party , and i still believe its that fact alone that will win him the next election.

[Thomas]

45% of the UK ?

Or 45% of what's left of it after Scotland buggers off ?

One of the huge advantages of Scottish independence is the whiny little git no longer gets seats in London. So the opportunity for a Labour minority coalition government vanishes

The Cottage burners will force the issue in Wales and will finally be put down. Because they went all out for independence last time and the Tories were the winners.

No, I understand what you mean about the margin being narrow, but I'm not sure I'm ready to believe the link b dem bullshit just yet.

its a redfield and wilton uk wide poll john.

[cromwell]

And 45% Remain means 55% Brexit which is a 10% lead for the latter.

It comes back to the earlier point that we were told of the economic horrors of Brexit. A lot of Remainers believed it as did quite a few Brexiters. I know that I did. But the roof did not fall in, so I reckon in the event of a second referendum a lot of newly minted Brexiters will swagger off to the polls in graceless triumph and a few ex Remainers will sit it out, resulting in an even bigger vote for Brexit.

The Lib Dems are the Loony Tunes party.If there was a campaign to stick a hot poker up the nation's arse the Limp Dicks would support it. And they would pick up the usual oh sod it vote, but get nowhere near enough to get near the corridors of power.

Meanwhile, with the Russian Bear advancing across Europe and intend on having the Cossacks water their horses in the Thames, the best poor, silly Starmer can come up with is a row with J C Rowlings over Tranie toilets. I always had a quiet admiration for the often misguided, but usually stolid decency of old Labour, but the current party seems made up of a right bunch of head dicks

See ITV news is on for an hour now,told to us by a lot of smug remainers who are pissed off because they can't hide their ill gotten gains in the eu any more.

It could be all done and dusted in minutes if they laid out the salient bits as you have above.

[Borchester]

45% of the UK ?

Or 45% of what's left of it after Scotland buggers off ?

One of the huge advantages of Scottish independence is the whiny little git no longer gets seats in London. So the opportunity for a Labour minority coalition government vanishes

The Cottage burners will force the issue in Wales and will finally be put down. Because they went all out for independence last time and the Tories were the winners.

No, I understand what you mean about the margin being narrow, but I'm not sure I'm ready to believe the link b dem bullshit just yet.

And 45% Remain means 55% Brexit which is a 10% lead for the latter.

It comes back to the earlier point that we were told of the economic horrors of Brexit. A lot of Remainers believed it as did quite a few Brexiters. I know that I did. But the roof did not fall in, so I reckon in the event of a second referendum a lot of newly minted Brexiters will swagger off to the polls in graceless triumph and a few ex Remainers will sit it out, resulting in an even bigger vote for Brexit.

The Lib Dems are the Loony Tunes party.If there was a campaign to stick a hot poker up the nation's arse the Limp Dicks would support it. And they would pick up the usual oh sod it vote, but get nowhere near enough to get near the corridors of power.

Meanwhile, with the Russian Bear advancing across Europe and intend on having the Cossacks water their horses in the Thames, the best poor, silly Starmer can come up with is a row with J C Rowlings over Tranie toilets. I always had a quiet admiration for the often misguided, but usually stolid decency of old Labour, but the current party seems made up of a right bunch of head dicks

[johnofgwent]

You say that john , but apparently 45 % of the uk want to rejoin the eu , so if labour under starmer keep trying the failed policy of sitting on the eu fence and facing both ways , while obviously the snp hopefully will take the scot vote , then the liberals could potentially win seats in england and wales from the rejoin vote.

They could hurt labour in quite a few seats , and the tories in the southern english middle class remain shires.

45% of the UK ?

Or 45% of what's left of it after Scotland buggers off ?

One of the huge advantages of Scottish independence is the whiny little git no longer gets seats in London. So the opportunity for a Labour minority coalition government vanishes 

The Cottage burners will force the issue in Wales and will finally be put down. Because they went all out for independence last time and the Tories were the winners.

No, I understand what you mean about the margin being narrow, but I'm not sure I'm ready to believe the link b dem bullshit just yet.