What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[Nick]

But we didn't and they still effectively told us to eff off. If Labour can do a negotiation with the EU which is due next year. No matter how successful it is, it will be too late.

If you can't follow the thread of a conversation and only pick up on points you THINK you can argue then keep out. 

[papasmurf]

How can the EU possibly say that if we had a hard Brexit, they cannot fish in our waters without an agreement, you're talking rubbish.

But we didn't and they still effectively told us to eff off. If Labour can do a negotiation with the EU which is due next year. No matter how successful it is, it will be too late. 

[Nick]

Nick basically the answer Britain got back was eff off.

How can the EU possibly say that if we had a hard Brexit, they cannot fish in our waters without an agreement, you're talking rubbish. 

[papasmurf]

 You're not fishing our waters, what you need you buy off us.

Nick basically the answer Britain got back was eff off.

[Nick]

Again more shifting.

You said "Britain was taken into the. Common market without a say"

I pointed out it was in the 1970 manefesto and there was a referendum - so hardly "without a say".

When it comes to disagreeing with the result of the referendum (as in the direction it chose not the counting itself - I'll leave that shit to MAGA) it is the Leave campaign that is so keen that  nobody ever says "I know we had a referendum but I still think this is wrong" - leave are all "will of the people"


Where was that sentiment after the first referendum? Leavers spent 4 decades complaining.amd saying how shit things were.

But now, it's "shut up, it's decided".

Yes the.2016 referendum had a narrow victory (I notice you go with the absolute numbers rather than. %).

Unlike the first referendum the 2nd was for a very undefined aim - just leaving the EU. There was absolutely no detail on how we.left.  I fact the leave campaign had many interpretations itself ("nobody is talking about leavi g the single. Market") etc.

As it happened, the. Government of the day took one particularly hard interpretation of the manner of exit.

And there was no discussion allowed on it. I fact the government took. Extreme measures, including lying to the queen to avoid any meaningful discussion.

Now here. I. Pointing. Out things need fixing because the. Orginal method of leaving was botched.

Of course. You will say "because. We. Didn't go hard enough"

Can you explain how goj g even harder on Brexit (and waht that would. Mean) would help the manufacturing company in the orginal article?

Would more paperwork and barrier help? Nk tariff agreement with the EU at all? Would that help?

Leave won by more votes than gave the SNP 50 seats in parliament, is that enough?
A hard Brexit would have been, we are leaving on this day, you're not getting 31 billion in payoffs, that would go to pointing businesses to other markets. You're not fishing our waters, what you need you buy off us. 

Along those lines. 

[Nick]

More BS ^

The referendum result was accepted until it was revealed there had been record breaking illegality in the Leave campaign.

Once the 2019 General Election gave a mandate for leaving there has been no serious call to reverse the decision.  There have however been reams and reams of BS from sad leavers pretending there has been.

So the 3 years of anti-democratic court cases and marches are ok then because the 2019 GE gave legitimacy to an already legitimate vote. Where is this record levels of illegal voter activity?

[Nick]

And that's how another thread was diverted onto the EU

By you and Scott: Reply #1787. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

Britain was taken into the common market without a say, was it in the 1970 manifesto?

And that's how another thread was diverted onto the EU

[BeElBeeBub]

Ok, so we are taking this is the bastion of democracy then? I will agree to that, there was a vote with a 64% turnout (40,086,677 votes) and 17,378,581 people voted to remain.
In 2016 a vote took place and with a 72% turnout (46,501,241 votes) and 17,410,742 people voted to leave. A higher turnout, more people voted to leave, but you won't accept the result and have to keep nipping away because you are a lefty liberal and won't accept democracy. You have to keep having a dig, saying it's all gone wrong, it needs fixing. Your own link suggests "In the long term" and "short term hit", you Remoaners were at it from day one, and you wonder why people have zero respect for you views, think about that.

Again more shifting. 

You said "Britain was taken into the. Common market without a say"

I pointed out it was in the 1970 manefesto and there was a referendum - so hardly "without a say".

When it comes to disagreeing with the result of the referendum (as in the direction it chose not the counting itself - I'll leave that shit to MAGA) it is the Leave campaign that is so keen that  nobody ever says "I know we had a referendum but I still think this is wrong" - leave are all "will of the people"


Where was that sentiment after the first referendum? Leavers spent 4 decades complaining.amd saying how shit things were. 

But now, it's "shut up, it's decided". 

Yes the.2016 referendum had a narrow victory (I notice you go with the absolute numbers rather than. %). 

Unlike the first referendum the 2nd was for a very undefined aim - just leaving the EU. There was absolutely no detail on how we.left.  I fact the leave campaign had many interpretations itself ("nobody is talking about leavi g the single. Market") etc. 

As it happened, the. Government of the day took one particularly hard interpretation of the manner of exit. 

And there was no discussion allowed on it. I fact the government took. Extreme measures, including lying to the queen to avoid any meaningful discussion. 

Now here. I. Pointing. Out things need fixing because the. Orginal method of leaving was botched. 

Of course. You will say "because. We. Didn't go hard enough" 

Can you explain how goj g even harder on Brexit (and waht that would. Mean) would help the manufacturing company in the orginal article? 

Would more paperwork and barrier help? Nk tariff agreement with the EU at all? Would that help? 

[Unlucky4Sum]

You forgot Major who threatened to dissolve parliament if the cabinet didn't back his further entrenchment into the EU.

Seeing as how the 1992 election had given him that backing to progress Maastricht then if his party had blocked it a further election would have been the only logical way forward.

Maybe you forget how few votes anti EU parties got in that 1992 election. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

Ok, so we are taking this is the bastion of democracy then? I will agree to that, there was a vote with a 64% turnout (40,086,677 votes) and 17,378,581 people voted to remain.
In 2016 a vote took place and with a 72% turnout (46,501,241 votes) and 17,410,742 people voted to leave. A higher turnout, more people voted to leave, but you won't accept the result and have to keep nipping away because you are a lefty liberal and won't accept democracy. You have to keep having a dig, saying it's all gone wrong, it needs fixing. Your own link suggests "In the long term" and "short term hit", you Remoaners were at it from day one, and you wonder why people have zero respect for you views, think about that.

More BS ^

The referendum result was accepted until it was revealed there had been record breaking illegality in the Leave campaign.

Once the 2019 General Election gave a mandate for leaving there has been no serious call to reverse the decision.  There have however been reams and reams of BS from sad leavers pretending there has been. 

[Nick]

They eventually got round to skiing us and  voted yes to a common market what I and a lot of other people didn't vote for was a European Union,that blot on the landscape Bliar promised a referendum then promptly forgot it.
Then Cameron the run away held one and all we've heard ever since is a lot of moans from people who profess their belief in democracy till the vote doesn't go their way.

You forgot Major who threatened to dissolve parliament if the cabinet didn't back his further entrenchment into the EU. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

Britain was taken into the common market without a say, was it in the 1970 manifesto?

Yep

And there was a 1975 referendum after Labour renegotiated the terms.  But to you that's 'without a say'.  How strange.

[Nick]

If we can negotiate the right terms, we believe that it would be in the long-term interest of the British people for Britain to join the European Economic Community, and that it would make a major contribution to both the prosperity and the security of our country


Now you can dance around with "oh they only said the believed it to be in the best interests to join.... Not that they would join"

But we both know that is bullshit.

That passage in the manefesto makes it clear the party wanted to join the EEC and the only impediment would be the terms being acceptable.

It cannot come.as a surprise to anyone that, when offered the chance to join on terms they deemed acceptable they did.

It is also relevant that shortly after joining a referendum was held on whether to remain in the. EEC which resulted in remaining Int he EEC.

The entire point of a representative democracy is to delegate the decision making process to an executive. The democratic input is limited to picking the executive based (amongst other things) their policy platform - often distilled into a manifesto.

The electorate voted the. Conservatives in knowing their position on the EEC (to join if possible) and later voted on remaining in the EEC on the terms the conservatives negotiated.

That is a much "will of the people" as you get in a representative democracy

Ok, so we are taking this is the bastion of democracy then? I will agree to that, there was a vote with a 64% turnout (40,086,677 votes) and 17,378,581 people voted to remain. 
In 2016 a vote took place and with a 72% turnout (46,501,241 votes) and 17,410,742 people voted to leave. A higher turnout, more people voted to leave, but you won't accept the result and have to keep nipping away because you are a lefty liberal and won't accept democracy. You have to keep having a dig, saying it's all gone wrong, it needs fixing. Your own link suggests "In the long term" and "short term hit", you Remoaners were at it from day one, and you wonder why people have zero respect for you views, think about that. 

[BeElBeeBub]

They eventually got round to skiing us and  voted yes to a common market what I and a lot of other people didn't vote for was a European Union,that blot on the landscape Bliar promised a referendum then promptly forgot it.
Then Cameron the run away held one and all we've heard ever since is a lot of moans from people who profess their belief in democracy till the vote doesn't go their way.

OK, so now the goal post shift from "we weren't asked if we wanted to join" to "we weren't asked about the development of the thing we agreed to join"