What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[Scott777]

You only negotiate with an aggressor, which pretty much tells you all you need to know.

No, you don't only negotiate with an aggressor.  Both sides are required in any negotiation, so are both sides always aggressors?

[Nick]

Don't tell Deppity I posted this video with Noam Chomsky.  😉  It seems Chomsky supports negotiation with Putin, and brainwashed lefties have gone ballistic on Twitter.  🤣

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YeRX6ZYXH0

Why would you need to negotiate with someone who is defending their territory?
You only negotiate with an aggressor, which pretty much tells you all you need to know. 

[Scott777]

Don't tell Deppity I posted this video with Noam Chomsky.  😉  It seems Chomsky supports negotiation with Putin, and brainwashed lefties have gone ballistic on Twitter.  🤣

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YeRX6ZYXH0

[Nick]

Yes many countries have pledged humanitarian aid to the Ukraine and but not through the Regime in Kiev
Yes China and Stans and etc are sending aid - via Moscow. There is lot of territory that is under Russian and Breakaway Republic control and a very great number of people living there. You think they don't need aid as well?
I mean, I know your heads are addled by the brain death peddled by the media, but seriously you should have looked at that list and realised that somebody had been smoking something.
Btw Taiwan is not a country, it is part of China.

As for the Military, just the usual suspects from the US led block and simply proof of what I was saying.

Meanwhile back in the real world, the Russian advance in the North Donbas continues to accelerate with another clutch of strategic towns and villages being taken taken today.

Taiwan 🇹🇼 has a flag, a capital and is recognised as a country by many countries. And you saying it isn't and following the ROC doctrine doesn't make it so. 

[Nick]

Well you sure as hell wont find anything remotely like the truth in the Western Media; print or broadcast.
Damn bots eh, get everywhere saying the wrong things - I think they should ban everything that contradicts the narrative!

Things is though, you (and the countless others just like you over here) are not remotely interested in the truth, the truth is unpleasant, unpalatable and very uncomfortable. You all prefer the comforting and reassuring lie, that we are the righteous and the other are simply evil incarnate. The real truth afterall is that you don't care, you are ardent jingoistic nationalists and once the balloon goes up, the cause becomes unimportant, the means irrelevant and all that matters is winning against whatever "other" is the enemy on this occasion. You will cheer the home side on no matter what.

So what really bothers me about it?
Is it the stupidity of the position? No, it is stupid but that's no big deal
Is it the blatantly obvious hypocrisy and general double standards? No it is hypocritical but again no big deal.
No what really bugs me is the cowardice. and its cowardice on two counts.
One the moral cowardice, people just can't admit even to themselves what they are and what really motivates them and sp salve their precious consciences, they have to dress it up with all this fake sanctimony about human rights and war crimes. Everybody knows its fake, because if it was real you would have real compassion and real outrage at any acts of violence, carried out by anyone. The moment it becomed selective its fake and just a fig leaf to cover your embarrassment about what your real motives are.
If something bad happens "Oh the other side did it" Doesn't matter how ridiculous it is, all that matters is that you have had the reassuring lie and you can sleep easy.

Two is actual physical cowardice. People that have been happy (some even getting off on it) to see the West dish it out against some of the poorest countries in the world, can now see someone else dishing it back to "our side" and even have started to contemplate that it might actually be handed back to them in person. Oh dear - see the total mental meltdown and screaming hysteria at that prospect.

To quote "Good Old" from a few days agoSave your fat arse more like. Aint blowback a bitch.

In short a nation that once prided itself on quiet stoic dignity has degenerated into an unmanly hysterical mess, no doubt a reflection of the attitudes of those that rule us.
If the war does get to these shores, people will have no one to blame but themselves for knowingly buying in to the decades of US bullcrap so uncritically.

So if you are a rabid Atlantacist that dreams of global domination under US hegemony until the end of time, just have the balls to admit it, openly, for what it is, for what we really are and stop trying to justify it using every feeble liberal cop out excuse under the sun.

So what is the truth, and where did YOU get it from?

[cromwell]

The following is film of Russian soldiers engaged in street fighting in Mariupol,at least one of them is hit and probably killed so you have been warned.

The reality of war people from whatever side dying.

https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1519986715829719040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1519986715829719040%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

[Sampanviking]

A Rare bit if BBC footage from 2014 showing the Ukrainian army recapturing Mariupol after it rose with the rest of the rebels of Donetsk

https://twitter.com/Syricide/status/1519368055113011202

[Sampanviking]

If that were the case it would one way or another been all over by now . NATO countries and others by the way are providing assistance in a soveriegn unilateral way not as part of the NATO alliance . As a defence alliance NATO will not be involved until or hopefully unless Russia attacks a NATO member .

For sure Russia likes to paint it as against NATO ,that they have a military machine that can stand up to joint NATO forces is an illusion they will feed the Russian people as sanctions bite . I dont suppose telling them the  world is against them for invading Ukraine and it could stop tomorow if they withdrew would not  go down too well .

There was a meeting in Germany on Tuesday of nations to see where they could best help in the defence of Ukraine . Along with all NATO and EU  members there were representatives of Japan , South Korea , Australia . New Zealand ,Israel , Qatar  ,Jordan , Kenya ,Liberia ,Morocco and Tunisia .
Finland and Sweden also, Finland immediately for the first time promising arms to Ukraine 

Countries sending humanitarian non military  aid to Ukraine  include Albania , Argentina , Azabijan ,Bahrain ,Brazil , Chile, Colombia ,Georgia ,India ,Kazhakstan , Kosovo, Kuwait ,Moldova , Mongolia , Pakistan ,Qatar, Saudi Arabia ,Singapore ,Switzerland, Taiwan , Turkey, UAE and Uzbekistan .
Even China have pledged $1million of humanitarian assistance ,not a lot but maybe a sign of which way they are thinking which is always the bottom line of their accounts sheet .

Whats clear is that the World and its Granny supports Ukraine , Russia has become  a pariah state, its only friends are Belarus , North Korea and Cuba along with a few old soviet countries ending in stan  .

The World will not allow Russia to succeed , the reason that NATO has not become directly involved is because the world cannot face the consequences of Putin  losing .

Yes many countries have pledged humanitarian aid to the Ukraine and but not through the Regime in Kiev
Yes China and Stans and etc are sending aid - via Moscow. There is lot of territory that is under Russian and Breakaway Republic control and a very great number of people living there. You think they don't need aid as well?
I mean, I know your heads are addled by the brain death peddled by the media, but seriously you should have looked at that list and realised that somebody had been smoking something.
Btw Taiwan is not a country, it is part of China.

As for the Military, just the usual suspects from the US led block and simply proof of what I was saying.

Meanwhile back in the real world, the Russian advance in the North Donbas continues to accelerate with another clutch of strategic towns and villages being taken taken today.

[Streetwalker]

It became clear early on that this was not a Russia/Ukraine conflict, but a full on Russia vs NATO one

If that were the case it would one way or another been all over by now . NATO countries and others by the way are providing assistance in a soveriegn unilateral way not as part of the NATO alliance . As a defence alliance NATO will not be involved until or hopefully unless Russia attacks a NATO member . 

For sure Russia likes to paint it as against NATO ,that they have a military machine that can stand up to joint NATO forces is an illusion they will feed the Russian people as sanctions bite . I dont suppose telling them the  world is against them for invading Ukraine and it could stop tomorow if they withdrew would not  go down too well . 

There was a meeting in Germany on Tuesday of nations to see where they could best help in the defence of Ukraine . Along with all NATO and EU  members there were representatives of Japan , South Korea , Australia . New Zealand ,Israel , Qatar  ,Jordan , Kenya ,Liberia ,Morocco and Tunisia .
Finland and Sweden also, Finland immediately for the first time promising arms to Ukraine  

Countries sending humanitarian non military  aid to Ukraine  include Albania , Argentina , Azabijan ,Bahrain ,Brazil , Chile, Colombia ,Georgia ,India ,Kazhakstan , Kosovo, Kuwait ,Moldova , Mongolia , Pakistan ,Qatar, Saudi Arabia ,Singapore ,Switzerland, Taiwan , Turkey, UAE and Uzbekistan .
Even China have pledged $1million of humanitarian assistance ,not a lot but maybe a sign of which way they are thinking which is always the bottom line of their accounts sheet .

Whats clear is that the World and its Granny supports Ukraine , Russia has become  a pariah state, its only friends are Belarus , North Korea and Cuba along with a few old soviet countries ending in stan  .

The World will not allow Russia to succeed , the reason that NATO has not become directly involved is because the world cannot face the consequences of Putin  losing . 

[cromwell]

Well if the Ukrainian side was doing as well in reality as the Propaganda machine claims, they would be well on the way to Moscow, by now and clearly they are not.
It became clear early on that this was not a Russia/Ukraine conflict, but a full on Russia vs NATO one

Massive financial support for Kiev
Ukraine army trained by NATO for nearly ten years
NATO officers in direct command of Ukrainian military
Massive supply of NATO weaponry
Constant live feed on Intel from NATO assets
Ongoing EW Ops against Russian forces by NATO

and the Ukraine is still losing, its a much harder war for Russia than had there not been this support, but Ukraine is still losing and it is Russia that continues to "shape the battlefield" and they have not even started to mobilise yet.

Incidentally, Gonzalo Lira is a real Independent Journalist who has lived in Kharkov for many years. He was arrested by the Ukrainian Intelligence services and held without charge for nearly a month, because he failed to back the official narrative of the Ukrainian government in regards to the war.
He has presented his own summary of the Russian operations to date
https://twitter.com/GonzaloLira1968/status/1518899739437187073

How so? it was the Russians who invaded.....Ukraine would never have done what Sputum has.

[Sampanviking]

Well if the Ukrainian side was doing as well in reality as the Propaganda machine claims, they would be well on the way to Moscow, by now and clearly they are not.
It became clear early on that this was not a Russia/Ukraine conflict, but a full on Russia vs NATO one

Massive financial support for Kiev
Ukraine army trained by NATO for nearly ten years
NATO officers in direct command of Ukrainian military
Massive supply of NATO weaponry
Constant live feed on Intel from NATO assets
Ongoing EW Ops against Russian forces by NATO

and the Ukraine is still losing, its a much harder war for Russia than had there not been this support, but Ukraine is still losing and it is Russia that continues to "shape the battlefield" and they have not even started to mobilise yet.

Incidentally, Gonzalo Lira is a real Independent Journalist who has lived in Kharkov for many years. He was arrested by the Ukrainian Intelligence services and held without charge for nearly a month, because he failed to back the official narrative of the Ukrainian government in regards to the war.
He has presented his own summary of the Russian operations to date
https://twitter.com/GonzaloLira1968/status/1518899739437187073

[cromwell]

You can't say sampan that Good old is that wrong,Putin thought it was a walk in and take over and it's proved to be far from that.

He and we overestimated the Russian army,yes we know he's got nukes but doomsday threats will see the end of us all.

[Good old]

To quote "Good Old" from a few days agoSave your fat arse more like. Aint blowback a bitch.

In short a nation that once prided itself on quiet stoic dignity has degenerated into an unmanly hysterical mess, no doubt a reflection of the attitudes of those that rule us.
If the war does get to these shores, people will have no one to blame but themselves for knowingly buying in to the decades of US bullcrap so uncritically.

So if you are a rabid Atlantacist that dreams of global domination under US hegemony until the end of time, just have the balls to admit it, openly, for what it is, for what we really are and stop trying to justify it using every feeble liberal cop out excuse under the sun. 

Ain't blowback a bitch? Your Russian friends ,are finding out just what sort of a bitch , in Ukraine.
Putin , and you it seems , are sure showing a capacity for over rating your own capabilities, and underrating those around you. So Russia, wants a fight, she has one, and believe me she will bleed as much as any of those she abuses. That is a tragedy for Russia, just as much as anyone one else on this planet. Unmanly is making direct threats to  nuk mankind, if  other nations don't bow to your threats. In fact it's inhuman. And it's one big reason why Putin and his hysteria will be resisted at every turn.

[Sampanviking]

Whatever the truth of 'What is really happening in Ukraine ' it wont be found on Twitter .

Twitter let Russia churn out anti-Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation for weeks during war (inews.co.uk)

The twitter platform has been used by Russia to spread fake news aided and abetted by conspiracy theorists ,pro Russians propogandists and twits .

Not sure which group Sam falls into ,maybe all three

Well you sure as hell wont find anything remotely like the truth in the Western Media; print or broadcast.
Damn bots eh, get everywhere saying the wrong things - I think they should ban everything that contradicts the narrative!

Things is though, you (and the countless others just like you over here) are not remotely interested in the truth, the truth is unpleasant, unpalatable and very uncomfortable. You all prefer the comforting and reassuring lie, that we are the righteous and the other are simply evil incarnate. The real truth afterall is that you don't care, you are ardent jingoistic nationalists and once the balloon goes up, the cause becomes unimportant, the means irrelevant and all that matters is winning against whatever "other" is the enemy on this occasion. You will cheer the home side on no matter what.

So what really bothers me about it?
Is it the stupidity of the position? No, it is stupid but that's no big deal
Is it the blatantly obvious hypocrisy and general double standards? No it is hypocritical but again no big deal.
No what really bugs me is the cowardice. and its cowardice on two counts.
One the moral cowardice, people just cant admit even to themselves what they are and what really motivates them and sp salve their precious consciences, they have to dress it up with all this fake sanctimony about human rights and war crimes. Everybody knows its fake, because if it was real you would have real compassion and real outrage at any acts of violence, carried out by anyone. The moment it becomed selective its fake and just a fig leaf to cover your embarrassment about what your real motives are.
If something bad happens "Oh the other side did it" Doesn't matter how ridiculous it is, all that matters is that you have had the reassuring lie and you can sleep easy.

Two is actual physical cowardice. People that have been happy (some even getting off on it) to see the West dish it out against some of the poorest countries in the world, can now see someone else dishing it back to "our side" and even have started to contemplate that it might actually be handed back to them in person. Oh dear - see the total mental meltdown and screaming hysteria at that prospect.

To quote "Good Old" from a few days ago

That comparison, is staring us all in the face. Hard as the realisation is , and in human terms, hard doesn't do it justice,  the Ukrainians , could be trying to save Europe, from another mass blood letting. 

Save your fat arse more like. Aint blowback a bitch.

In short a nation that once prided itself on quiet stoic dignity has degenerated into an unmanly hysterical mess, no doubt a reflection of the attitudes of those that rule us.
If the war does get to these shores, people will have no one to blame but themselves for knowingly buying in to the decades of US bullcrap so uncritically.

So if you are a rabid Atlantacist that dreams of global domination under US hegemony until the end of time, just have the balls to admit it, openly, for what it is, for what we really are and stop trying to justify it using every feeble liberal cop out excuse under the sun. 

[Streetwalker]

Whatever the truth of 'What is really happening in Ukraine ' it wont be found on Twitter .

Twitter let Russia churn out anti-Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation for weeks during war (inews.co.uk)

The twitter platform has been used by Russia to spread fake news aided and abetted by conspiracy theorists ,pro Russians propogandists and twits . 

Not sure which group Sam falls into ,maybe all three