What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[B0ycey]

You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think Russia is doing this to de-Nazify the region.
This is happening because Putin wants a legacy before he croaks: the steroids have not only swelled his face up, they've addled his brain. 

I agree that in all likelihood this has nothing to do with Denazification if that is what you are asking me. But honestly Nick, when you read up on this, the issues aren't as clear cut as you might think. So much could be solved by dividing the country up because where I do think this objective of this war exists is the plight of the Russian Speakers separatists in Donbass. The Denazification element is the excuse which is probably why if Zelensky really cares about the Azov Battalion, he could spare them for specific conditions which were actually written down but not enacted in Minsk II.

[Nick]

The point is where the main fighting is occurring, the Ukrainian force are Neo-Nazis and the President of Ukrainian happens to be Jewish. So what exactly is the bond here? That isn't a trick question. Mariupol will fall and then what, he's going to stop talks when at that point the conflict will most likely be at a stalemate on the Donbass border. It doesn't make sense to me. And it certainly doesn't make sense when I have to read a post that Zelensky is Jewish as if it means something. Russia are denazifying the East of Ukraine and the only reason they are bombing Keiv right now was because that is where the ammo is housed they aren't going after Zelensky.

You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think Russia is doing this to de-Nazify the region. 
This is happening because Putin wants a legacy before he croaks: the steroids have not only swelled his face up, they've addled his brain.   

[B0ycey]

I dont think Ukraines Neo nazis are what we in the west would traditionally see as Nazis . They are more ultra nationalists who just dislike everything Russian . The line 'but Zelensky is Jewish '  is irrelevant ,the Azoz malitias  fight for Ukraine and were formed after Russias annextion of the Crimea

I do like it when I read people brush off Neo Nazis as if it is normal. It isn't accepted in the UK, it isn't accepted in America and it isn't accepted in the rest of the world. But in Ukraine they are part of the military? I don't care how insignificant they are in numbers, they should never have been adopted into the Ukraine army. There is history in regards to the Maidan coup and the Donbass conflict in 2014 for why Russia have a vendetta for this battalion in particular. We must accept that this is one of Russias objectives and if Zelensky wants to defend these people in particular for whatever reason then he is going to have negotiate their safety by handing a concession in talks and get them moving again because when the port falls, his hand is reduced somewhat.

[B0ycey]

Half the population of Israel is Russian. Chelsea owner Abramovich is Jewish, and very close to Putin. What's your point?

The point is where the main fighting is occurring, the Ukrainian force are Neo-Nazis and the President of Ukrainian happens to be Jewish. So what exactly is the bond here? That isn't a trick question. Mariupol will fall and then what, he's going to stop talks when at that point the conflict will most likely be at a stalemate on the Donbass border. It doesn't make sense to me. And it certainly doesn't make sense when I have to read a post that Zelensky is Jewish as if it means something. Russia are denazifying the East of Ukraine and the only reason they are bombing Keiv right now was because that is where the ammo is housed they aren't going after Zelensky.

[Nick]

I wonder why a elected Jewish president hasn't addressed Nazis within his military given this is one of Russia's key demands? That isn't a trick question. The main conflict now is in Mariupol and the fighting is between the Azov and the Russians. Sure a few strikes are targeted at Ukrainian weapons depots in Keiv but the war is now to some extent back to the Civil war in 2014 and we can expect stalemate here once Mariupol has fallen. So given that we can expect trench welfare for the foreseeable future in the Donbass, why are talks stalling when the only unit in the Ukrainian army who are in the direct line of fire are Nazis? And remember, Zelensky as we keep hearing is Jewish which is like the Rabbi hiding Hitler in the basement when the Soviet Union stormed Berlin.

Half the population of Israel is Russian. Chelsea owner Abramovich is Jewish, and very close to Putin. What's your point? 

[Streetwalker]

I wonder why a elected Jewish president hasn't addressed Nazis within his military given this is one of Russia's key demands? That isn't a trick question. The main conflict now is in Mariupol and the fighting is between the Azov and the Russians. Sure a few strikes are targeted at Ukrainian weapons depots in Keiv but the war is now to some extent back to the Civil war in 2014 and we can expect stalemate here once Mariupol has fallen. So given that we can expect trench welfare for the foreseeable future in the Donbass, why are talks stalling when the only unit in the Ukrainian army who are in the direct line of fire are Nazis? And remember, Zelensky as we keep hearing is Jewish which is like the Rabbi hiding Hitler in the basement when the Soviet Union stormed Berlin.

I dont think Ukraines Neo nazis are what we in the west would traditionally see as Nazis . They are more ultra nationalists who just dislike everything Russian . The line 'but Zelensky is Jewish '  is irrelevant ,the Azoz malitias  fight for Ukraine and were formed after Russias annextion of the Crimea 

[B0ycey]

One of the states aims of Putin's "special military operation" in Ukraine is allegedly "de-nazifying" a country with a freely elected Jewish President and the worlds 5th largest Jewish community.

I wonder why a elected Jewish president hasn't addressed Nazis within his military given this is one of Russia's key demands? That isn't a trick question. The main conflict now is in Mariupol and the fighting is between the Azov and the Russians. Sure a few strikes are targeted at Ukrainian weapons depots in Keiv but the war is now to some extent back to the Civil war in 2014 and we can expect stalemate here once Mariupol has fallen. So given that we can expect trench welfare for the foreseeable future in the Donbass, why are talks stalling when the only unit in the Ukrainian army who are in the direct line of fire are Nazis? And remember, Zelensky as we keep hearing is Jewish which is like the Rabbi hiding Hitler in the basement when the Soviet Union stormed Berlin.

[Nick]

Well reports are coming in that ships are moving away from Ukraine coast so 2) might be likelier than you thought.

Update,the ship has sunk and it is reported the Russians have admitted it was hit by a Ukranian missile.

The ships are moving away because their escort and protection is now at the bottom of the ogin. 😂 

[Groo]

SAS

British SAS special forces are on the ground in Ukraine after all, training local soldiers - The Times

Passover

Jewish Ukrainian soldiers celebrating the start of Passover.

One of the states aims of Putin's "special military operation" in Ukraine is allegedly "de-nazifying" a country with a freely elected Jewish President and the worlds 5th largest Jewish community.

[Borchester]

Well reports are coming in that ships are moving away from Ukraine coast so 2) might be likelier than you thought.

Update,the ship has sunk and it is reported the Russians have admitted it was hit by a Ukranian missile.

I can't see the Russians losing, but they certainly seem to be taking their time about winning this war.

[Sampanviking]

Well reports are coming in that ships are moving away from Ukraine coast so 2) might be likelier than you thought.

Update,the ship has sunk and it is reported the Russians have admitted it was hit by a Ukranian missile.

The Ship has certainly sunk but only Ukraine are claiming it as a missile hit. Not even the yanks are saying this.
I would still stick with number 1, mainly because of the orderly evacuation and lack of casualties, which would have been inevitable and heavy had one missile, let alone two, struck.

Shame the old girl sank, but it changes little. I cant see the Russians as being prepared to repair, not when its replacement; a much bigger Amphibious Assault Ship, is in mid construction in Sevastopol.

[cromwell]

There are only three real options as why the Moskva caught fire

1) Accident on board causing fire and explosion as claimed by Russia

2) Strike but Neptune Missiles as claimed by Ukraine

3) Missile or other strike by another actor.

1) is quite possible, it is a forty year old ship which; unlike its two Ocean going sisters, has not had any significant upgrades to armaments or sensors. It is essentially a missile barge that can fire a volley of large Sunburn AshM at Enemy Capital Ships ie Carriers. As a Flag Ship it is a HQ but its loss is more symbolic and militarily significant.

2) Not impossible by unlikely if I am honest. Kiev has a history of false claims regarding Russian Warships at Sea, all of which have been debunked. The Neptune missile is not new and the Russian Fleet have been off the Odessa Coast since the start of the war. So why no missile strikes before now?
Moscva might have poor sensors of its own but it operates under an umbrella of very current land and ship borne systems. Numerous drones, Missiles and Helicopters have been shot down during the conflict, with nothing getting anywhere close to actual ships.
So not impossible, but rather far fetched, unless......

3) Another party was involved either directly launching an attack or providing EW capability to blind the Russians sensors just enough for Neptune's to get through. That would be quite an escalation and blur the line between NATO support and NATO participation in a very dangerous way.
It would explain though why Putin has stated today that Ukrainian Command and Control Centers will now be legitimate targets, as will be Military Aid convoys as soon as they cross the Ukrainian border.

Well reports are coming in that ships are moving away from Ukraine coast so 2) might be likelier than you thought.

Update,the ship has sunk and it is reported the Russians have admitted it was hit by a Ukranian missile.

[cromwell]

Has Putin spoke of the event?

Not directly,one actually more foul mouths of Sauron spoke for him. 

[Sampanviking]

There are only three real options as why the Moskva caught fire

1) Accident on board causing fire and explosion as claimed by Russia

2) Strike but Neptune Missiles as claimed by Ukraine

3) Missile or other strike by another actor.

1) is quite possible, it is a forty year old ship which; unlike its two Ocean going sisters, has not had any significant upgrades to armaments or sensors. It is essentially a missile barge that can fire a volley of large Sunburn AshM at Enemy Capital Ships ie Carriers. As a Flag Ship it is a HQ but its loss is more symbolic and militarily significant.

2) Not impossible by unlikely if I am honest. Kiev has a history of false claims regarding Russian Warships at Sea, all of which have been debunked. The Neptune missile is not new and the Russian Fleet have been off the Odessa Coast since the start of the war. So why no missile strikes before now?
Moscva might have poor sensors of its own but it operates under an umbrella of very current land and ship borne systems. Numerous drones, Missiles and Helicopters have been shot down during the conflict, with nothing getting anywhere close to actual ships.
So not impossible, but rather far fetched, unless......

3) Another party was involved either directly launching an attack or providing EW capability to blind the Russians sensors just enough for Neptune's to get through. That would be quite an escalation and blur the line between NATO support and NATO participation in a very dangerous way.
It would explain though why Putin has stated today that Ukrainian Command and Control Centers will now be legitimate targets, as will be Military Aid convoys as soon as they cross the Ukrainian border.

[Scott777]

the Russians would sooner claim Cthulhu chewed a chunk off their prize vessel

Don't be silly, he is sleeping.  😁