What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[cromwell]

Perhaps there is risk, but whatever the reason there isn't the numbers of significance to topple the government if that is what you expect. The numbers are very low. What people think in their own minds isn't being reflected in a movement and whatever the West think of Putin, they are going to have to deal with him and nobody else.

As for a referendum, perhaps the objective of it isn't for it to be legitimate or even for it to be an absolute. It is to show the world that there is a significant proportion of the Donbass population they don't want to be under Keiv rule. It is about time you realise this is and has always been a civil war and that only in cooperation and negotiation can peace be achieved. Thinking one side or the other can take control and run the entire Donbass under peace is about as farcical as it can be right now.

I don't have to realise anything,sputum invaded and is the aggresor.

If referenda are to be held in should be done post withdrawal and under a UN controlled environment.

[B0ycey]

Well who is going to believe his referenda? only perhaps China and those that are told to.

When you compare protests you should bear in mind that protesting in Russia unless it is state organised has been a very great risk for a century or more.

Perhaps there is risk, but whatever the reason there isn't the numbers of significance to topple the government if that is what you expect. The numbers are very low. What people think in their own minds isn't being reflected in a movement and whatever the West think of Putin, they are going to have to deal with him and nobody else.

As for a referendum, perhaps the objective of it isn't for it to be legitimate or even for it to be an absolute. It is to show the world that there is a significant proportion of the Donbass population they don't want to be under Keiv rule. It is about time you realise this is and has always been a civil war and that only in cooperation and negotiation can peace be achieved. Thinking one side or the other can take control and run the entire Donbass under peace is about as farcical as it can be right now.

[Sampanviking]

Sputums three day special operation has turned in to over two hundred days,invaded land being retaken,protests against mobilisation and to highlight the difference when Ukraine was Invaded expats returned to fight,in Russia they want to protest,avoid at all costs or leave.

Vlads time is running out fast,the sooner he goes the better.

Same old strawmen keep being trotted out,
Three Days, then Two weeks and then a couple months, trying to take Kiev, etc etc

Never once have I heard a single one of these from any official or even semi official source from Russia
All of these are inventions of the West's propaganda machine, if you cant see how blatantly you are being taken as a fool by them, once again, there's really not much anyone can do to help you.

Now of course its all "Voting at Gunpoint" Anti Draft Riots in Russia as they all run for the border.
Its ludicrous
Russia has mobilised a part of its former Professional Contract Soldier Reserves, most of whom will not be sent to Ukraine or serving as Front Line Infantry.
Some are former Officers and NCO's who will help with the creation of Volunteer formations, others are varied specialists, taking up rear roles and freeing up real soldiers for the fighting.
This is nothing like "The Draft" and something NATO armies have been doing regularly for its foreign adventures for over thirty years.

https://twitter.com/Zzzaikar/status/1572988439766630400

Another recruitment center, nothing special about this footage, just in the news feed as I speak, plenty of others have been and gone in the last 24 hours.

Despite the best warped lens attempts by the media, the overwhelming part of the Russian nation supports their Government and their intervention in the Ukraine. Likewise the desire in the liberated territories to dump the Kiev regime and be united with the motherland is also overwhelming. Just like they were in Crimea. In fact, every time the citizens of the Ukraine are given to chance to get out, they jump at it.

[cromwell]

I expect Putin might retire once his "special military operation" is complete Cromwell, certainly not now. Although it should be said the protest was very small, certainly significantly smaller than the anti Iraq war protests in London and if you are to believe Russian news, there was a significant uplift in volunteers for their effort. I won't say the mood in Russia is pro war or anything but there isn't the movement of anti war the media likes us to believe there is.

Well who is going to believe his referenda? only perhaps China and those that are told to.

When you compare protests you should bear in mind that protesting in Russia unless it is state organised has been a very great risk for a century or more.

[B0ycey]

Sputums three day special operation has turned in to over two hundred days,invaded land being retaken,protests against mobilisation and to highlight the difference when Ukraine was Invaded expats returned to fight,in Russia they want to protest,avoid at all costs or leave.

Vlads time is running out fast,the sooner he goes the better.

I expect Putin might retire once his "special military operation" is complete Cromwell, certainly not now. Although it should be said the protest was very small, certainly significantly smaller than the anti Iraq war protests in London and if you are to believe Russian news, there was a significant uplift in volunteers for their effort. I won't say the mood in Russia is pro war or anything but there isn't the movement of anti war the media likes us to believe there is.

[cromwell]

Sputums three day special operation has turned in to over two hundred days,invaded land being retaken,protests against mobilisation and to highlight the difference when Ukraine was Invaded expats returned to fight,in Russia they want to protest,avoid at all costs or leave.

Vlads time is running out fast,the sooner he goes the better.

[B0ycey]

Am I the "user in question". I had an avid interest in UFOs in my 20s and know all about the Warminster sightings, Area 51 theories and the like. Plenty of sightings by pilots over the years, too.
Eventually I decided for myself there was insufficient reliable evidence. Too many opportunities for crackpots to tell stories, too many things "seen" which were either distortions, reflections in windows or thrown up in front of a camera.

Are you aware of the Wall Street Article, UFO Congress debates earlier in the year and the realise of classified military UFO videos? 

FYI, the US has already confirmed that the UFO phenomenon is real and the NASA report on the subject is due next year. They now call them UAPs so pilots don't feel ostracised when reporting what they have seen. We are already on the path of disclosure if you must know. The only thing left to reveal is what is inside the UFOs.

[Barry]

UFO reports jumped up massively after 1945, which is amazing considering 6 years prior the world was at war Barry. Maybe it was their detonation which has something to do with why they are here. But without going through a whole ton of related stories on why I think what I do, it is almost impossible to debate this subject when the user in question knows very little if anything on the subject.

Am I the "user in question". I had an avid interest in UFOs in my 20s and know all about the Warminster sightings, Area 51 theories and the like. Plenty of sightings by pilots over the years, too.
Eventually I decided for myself there was insufficient reliable evidence. Too many opportunities for crackpots to tell stories, too many things "seen" which were either distortions, reflections in windows or thrown up in front of a camera.

[Sheepy]

UFO reports jumped up massively after 1945, which is amazing considering 6 years prior the world was at war Barry. Maybe it was their detonation which has something to do with why they are here. But without going through a whole ton of related stories on why I think what I do, it is almost impossible to debate this subject when the user in question knows very little if anything on the subject.

Anyway, in the meantime he will have to sort out his own mistakes like we all have to do eventually. 

[Sampanviking]

Yes, I remember the UFO attacks on America following the two nuclear bombs in Japan in 1945.
Oh no, that was a film, Independence Day.

Meanwhile, Russia are going door to door to collect votes from their occupied territories. Once collected in and counted, they will have a majority for Russia and the Russians will say this is the people having self determination.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/self_determination_(international_law)

Then Russia will hold that line and there will be a lot of grumbling until the next land grab.

I have read a load of bollocks on the BBC about these forced votings. I call it out as Fake News
I heard the unconvincing interview on R4 this morning with the supposed phone call to a random Zhaphoriazia resident (Maria; not her real name and we use the voice of an actor etc) who seemed to speak quite fluent English.
I have also seen the dodgy footage from a Recruitment center with a very obvious and badly done overdubbed soundtrack.

There is loads of footage from the Polls Booths yesterday. Those taking part are clearly happy and enthusiastic to be there and no soldiers in sight, other than security guards at the polling stations.

Footage from a pro Referendum rally in Moscow - guess the whole country isn't running for the border after all
https://twitter.com/SerbiaBased/status/1573324640382234625

[B0ycey]

Yes, I remember the UFO attacks on America following the two nuclear bombs in Japan in 1945.
Oh no, that was a film, Independence Day.

UFO reports jumped up massively after 1945, which is amazing considering 6 years prior the world was at war Barry. Maybe it was their detonation which has something to do with why they are here. But without going through a whole ton of related stories on why I think what I do, it is almost impossible to debate this subject when the user in question knows very little if anything on the subject.

[Barry]

Yes, I remember the UFO attacks on America following the two nuclear bombs in Japan in 1945.
Oh no, that was a film, Independence Day.

Meanwhile, Russia are going door to door to collect votes from their occupied territories. Once collected in and counted, they will have a majority for Russia and the Russians will say this is the people having self determination.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/self_determination_(international_law)

Then Russia will hold that line and there will be a lot of grumbling until the next land grab. 

[B0ycey]

Oh, thanks for that B0ycey. We can all now take this post into consideration when reading your other posts.

I was half expecting to been described as a kook Barry, the study of UFOs seems to be one of the subjects people don't want to take seriously. Fortunately the people in power do. That doesn't mean I am right I should say, but everything I read and hear on the subject does say they will intervene if nukes are going to be used. And perhaps the US might know a thing or two about this. They do seem to be on the path of disclosure when it wasn't that long ago they were on full denial.

[Barry]

As for nuclear weapons, I don't think they are going to work anyway. Not that I don't have faith in Russian or American scientists who created them but I am one of these freaks who studies UFO news and believe it in. I know I am going to get a huge backlash for saying this but whatever UFOs are, they don't seem to like nuclear weapons. They have the ability to turn off our defences at will, have been blasting our arsenal with lazers for years probably decapitation them and they hang around war zones like flies round shit. Apparently they are in Ukraine right now, far enough away not to be seen, but close enough to observe. It is a sad state of affairs that we cannot get our leaders to sort this out for the sakes of ALL THE PEOPLE of the Donbass and [highlight]we may have to rely on whoever is flying these UFOs to sort our shit out.[/highlight] And if I am right, I would hate to be the nation who uses nukes first.

Oh, thanks for that B0ycey. We can all now take this post into consideration when reading your other posts. 

[B0ycey]

I was asked yesterday what are we proposing to do about Vlad, after all he has threatened to Nuke us, so I explained London will be a huge crater and everything within a hundred miles will be flattened, he was pushed into a big mistake which he probably knows by now anyway, how he puts it right is his problem. Not ours as it happens. We all make mistakes as we very often prove. 

The threat isn't merely a threat but the situation Sheepy. Russia will use all means to satisfy their military objectives and that includes strategic nuclear missiles. They won't at first use ballistics because a strike on NATO is a defacto elimination of the motherland given they will have them sent back without warning ASAP. Which means they will strike Ukraine first and see what the response is. However that isn't immediate given the use of nuclear weapons is the last resort not the primary objective as fallout from nukes effects Russia just as much as it effects Ukraine and the rest of Europe. They will first mobilise their 300000 reservists and hold the line in Donbass in the Winter and then push forward to take what is left of their objective in the spring. Or that is what I get from what I am understanding from Moscow anyway. As for what we could do, I don't know, perhaps what was agreed in the Minsk agreement and set up the Donbass as an autonomous region to keep everyone happy rather than demand our preferred outcome.

As for nuclear weapons, I don't think they are going to work anyway. Not that I don't have faith in Russian or American scientists who created them but I am one of these freaks who studies UFO news and believe it in. I know I am going to get a huge backlash for saying this but whatever UFOs are, they don't seem to like nuclear weapons. They have the ability to turn off our defences at will, have been blasting our arsenal with lazers for years probably decapitation them and they hang around war zones like flies round shit. Apparently they are in Ukraine right now, far enough away not to be seen, but close enough to observe. It is a sad state of affairs that we cannot get our leaders to sort this out for the sakes of ALL THE PEOPLE of the Donbass and we may have to rely on whoever is flying these UFOs to sort our shit out. And if I am right, I would hate to be the nation who uses nukes first.