What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[Sampanviking]

The Kharkov attack?
It was all over social media a couple of days ago, but links to sources that don't fit the NATO narrative are very difficult to access on account of the level of Internet censorship.
I found one in English, far from authoritative and little more than marking that the event happened.
You will need a VPN set to the right place in order to access it.
I was able to do so using Turkey

https://www.plenglish.com/news/2022/09/29/ukrainian-attack-on-refugee-convoy-left-30-killed/

[cromwell]

Just  quick word about the outrageous attack on civilian vehicles waiting at the territory crossing check point in Zaphorisia

First of all I have no idea who is responsible or not, but I have read some very deliberately misleading information in the MSM and as a consequence view much of the rest of the information they provide through that same prism.

The crossing point in question is very well known. It has been a demilitarized location (part of a demilitarized route) to enable civilians to cross safely from Russian controlled to Ukrainian territory and has been operating as such since the very early days on the conflict.

Some objective Western journalists (mainly French) have visited the crossing and they have all said the same thing, that there are long queues of people trying to get from the Ukrainian side to the Russian, but very few wanting to come back the other way.

The flow into Russian territory has been consistent, it is widely reported that Russian benefits and salaries have been paid in the Russian controlled areas for many months and people have been able to apply for Russian citizenship since late Spring.

The story in MSM about the vehicles being hit being an Aid or Rescue convoy sound unconvincing. Whilst it might be true, I would want far more corroboration than simply the say so of Ukrainian officials and our press.

I think it is far more credible that the Whilst the Kiev regime may have tolerated the departure of Ukrainian citizens from Ukrainian held to territory to Russian held territory, whilst all the territory was nominally the Ukraine, that this has stopped the moment these regions voted to join the Russian Federation and the crossing point became a new International border and these people were seeking to leave the Ukraine to live in an enemy state.

This would not be the first Civilian convoy to be shelled by Kiev forces. The same happened a few days ago when a civilian convoy tried to leave the vicinity of the front lines in Kharkov and tried to enter Lughansk.

You got  a link to that?

[Sampanviking]

Just  quick word about the outrageous attack on civilian vehicles waiting at the territory crossing check point in Zaphorisia

First of all I have no idea who is responsible or not, but I have read some very deliberately misleading information in the MSM and as a consequence view much of the rest of the information they provide through that same prism.

The crossing point in question is very well known. It has been a demilitarized location (part of a demilitarized route) to enable civilians to cross safely from Russian controlled to Ukrainian territory and has been operating as such since the very early days on the conflict.

Some objective Western journalists (mainly French) have visited the crossing and they have all said the same thing, that there are long queues of people trying to get from the Ukrainian side to the Russian, but very few wanting to come back the other way.

The flow into Russian territory has been consistent, it is widely reported that Russian benefits and salaries have been paid in the Russian controlled areas for many months and people have been able to apply for Russian citizenship since late Spring.

The story in MSM about the vehicles being hit being an Aid or Rescue convoy sound unconvincing. Whilst it might be true, I would want far more corroboration than simply the say so of Ukrainian officials and our press.

I think it is far more credible that the Whilst the Kiev regime may have tolerated the departure of Ukrainian citizens from Ukrainian held to territory to Russian held territory, whilst all the territory was nominally the Ukraine, that this has stopped the moment these regions voted to join the Russian Federation and the crossing point became a new International border and these people were seeking to leave the Ukraine to live in an enemy state.

This would not be the first Civilian convoy to be shelled by Kiev forces. The same happened a few days ago when a civilian convoy tried to leave the vicinity of the front lines in Kharkov and tried to enter Lughansk.

[Sheepy]

What comics are you reading? Thatcher , would never have Nuked Argentina. Complete rubbish. The Yanks would never of used a nuk if the Japs, had one of their own . It was completely new technology that only they could deploy. Lessons were learned, one of which was it had the potential to destroy the world , mankind.
Putin threatens himself,with his threats  nuks are many times more lethal now than they started out to be, and unlike Japan,the west has more than enough of their  own to ensure no winners this time. Putin better keep it conventional if he doesn't want to fry with the rest of us.
As Dannatt, said today he better be very careful what and how he escalates and what he uses, apparently the west has a non nuclear weapon that could take out the Whole Black Sea fleet . Let's hope he doesn't push it that far then Ah.

Facts of the time. But don't let that bother you, you carry on.

[Good old]

I remember when Thatcher was planning to nuke Argentina if she lost, so it certainly isn't against the realms of possibility. The Yanks nuked Japan in a war, so don't be thinking it is purely blackmail. He has now removed his Brussels ambassador. Never a good sign in the world of diplomacy, that means it has failed.

What comics are you reading? Thatcher , would never have Nuked Argentina. Complete rubbish. The Yanks would never of used a nuk if the Japs, had one of their own . It was completely new technology that only they could deploy. Lessons were learned, one of which was it had the potential to destroy the world , mankind.
Putin threatens himself,with his threats  nuks are many times more lethal now than they started out to be, and unlike Japan,the west has more than enough of their  own to ensure no winners this time. Putin better keep it conventional if he doesn't want to fry with the rest of us.
As Dannatt, said today he better be very careful what and how he escalates and what he uses, apparently the west has a non nuclear weapon that could take out the Whole Black Sea fleet . Let's hope he doesn't push it that far then Ah.

[Sheepy]

Oh really. So on your part who,s mind set is in play here yours or Lavrovs ? Or is it just a simple case of you adopting Lavrovs mind set?  Just more nonsense sheep, on top of the nonsense Lavrov displays in explaining Russian aggression to its neighbour away.

I remember when Thatcher was planning to nuke Argentina if she lost, so it certainly isn't against the realms of possibility. The Yanks nuked Japan in a war, so don't be thinking it is purely blackmail. He has now removed his Brussels ambassador. Never a good sign in the world of diplomacy, that means it has failed.

[Good old]

You have your answers you asked for, now you want to make a drama of that and change it somehow so it fits your own mindset. I cannot do that for you.

Oh really. So on your part who,s mind set is in play here yours or Lavrovs ? Or is it just a simple case of you adopting Lavrovs mind set?  Just more nonsense sheep, on top of the nonsense Lavrov displays in explaining Russian aggression to its neighbour away. 

[Sheepy]

And then avoided any of the further questions. Don't bother sheep, most on here know the answers anyway.

You have your answers you asked for, now you want to make a drama of that and change it somehow so it fits your own mindset. I cannot do that for you.

[Good old]

You asked and received a reply, I did my bit.

And then avoided any of the further questions. Don't bother sheep, most on here know the answers anyway.

[Sheepy]

What the , we have got the arse ache over the collapse of the USSR speech? And that's why invading your neighbour as a start to changing world order, is perfectly fine for Russians speech?
So where does that outlook take them ? Where does it take the western world? And what's the very obvious answer to both questions?

You asked and received a reply, I did my bit.

[Good old]

I will just refer you to Sergei Lavrovs speech at the UN saves me constantly repeating myself.

What the , we have got the arse ache over the collapse of the USSR speech? And that's why invading your neighbour as a start to changing world order, is perfectly fine for Russians speech?
So where does that outlook take them ? Where does it take the western world? And what's the very obvious answer to both questions?

[Sheepy]

So Russia is not interfering with matters outside of their borders.? That's what's bloody nonsense.

I will just refer you to Sergei Lavrovs speech at the UN saves me constantly repeating myself. 

[cromwell]

Maybe the Russian should have avoided WW2 and we would have lost for sure.

How could the Russians have possibly avoided WW2? Hitler had laid out his plans in his boring book,we weren't considered the big enemy.....it was always the soviet union.

[Sampanviking]

Another day of the Kherson Counter Offensive
Another Ukrainian attack
Same old result..

https://twitter.com/WOrchestra_/status/1573705283351846917

[Good old]

Looking for any excuse to back Western interference certainly is nonsense; I don't need telling by you what is what either.

So Russia is not interfering with matters outside of their borders.? That's what's bloody nonsense.