What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[Barry]

Whatever gives you that impression?

Maybe this. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2C2RVe_Wf8

[papasmurf]

Looks like the Kersh bridge has been hit by a Suicide Truck Bomber

Whatever gives you that impression?

[Sampanviking]

What moralistic pose? And your not selective are you  I  don't support Ukraine because of their morals. It's you that wants morals compared, as your request shows. Every situation has different reasons for it to have happened in the first place  I have never fully supported any incursion .but some I regard as justified enough to at least not oppose completely. These are few . Kuwait, was not Sadams to invade, but at the same time the oil was a factor, and the UN formed a coalition not ideal .Isis needed confronting . The very obvious civilian massacre that was taking place in Kosovo ,warranted the two sides being pulled apart ,and that's what happened. Iraq a massive miss informed mistake. Afghanistan not needed . Other than a quick hit on the people that knocked the towers down. Libya, A sad  little adventure. And
Now I have let you divert from Ukraine, but the reason I do so is because those conflicts have  got  little or nothing to do with what Putin does or why he does it in Ukraine. In none the conflicts around the world since world war 2 have the US, or any European country actually stolen land and attached it to their own .
Putin  has invaded a European democracy for the sole purpose of taking their land into not just Russian control but making it Russian territory, a plain and simple illegal land grab. He imitates the men who have caused two of the greatest horror shows Europe has ever known, Napoleon, Hitler.

Weasel words indeed - I think the Libyans would disagree about it being "a sad little adventure" for them.
So maybe you are a Western Exceptionalist, and that such rights belong only to us and its only more than serious than "a mistake" when the other side does it.

I see Russia's intervention in Ukraine as a genuine RTP far more real and genuine than our "Sad Little Adventure" launched under that pretext in Libya
Looks like the Kersh bridge has been hit by a Suicide Truck Bomber to the delight and rejoicing of Kiev, so keep cheering Ethnic Cleansing, Pre-emptive Nuclear War and full on ISIS style Suicide Bombings, great to see "our values" being trumpeted and demonstrated to the full.

[Sampanviking]

Is it true that Indonesia are hosting talks between Zelenskyy and Putin? I can only find references to moves at the end of June, but I think there is something more recent?
If it is, perhaps we might see a toning down of this deadly conflict, or even an end to hostilities.

Back in Early spring talks between Russia and the Ukraine were brokered in Turkey by Erdogan.
They agreed a deal, up to the point of the two leaders coming to agree final terms and sign it.

The deal was a form of updated Minsk agreement and not dissimilar to the suggestion that Musk made a couple of days ago
Just before it was all due to happen, Boris flew into Kiev and suddenly it was all off...

[Barry]

Is it true that Indonesia are hosting talks between Zelenskyy and Putin? I can only find references to moves at the end of June, but I think there is something more recent?
If it is, perhaps we might see a toning down of this deadly conflict, or even an end to hostilities. 

[Sheepy]

Well, it cannot be thought that serious or the mad dog in Ukraine wouldn't be blowing up a bridge deemed sacred by the Russians.Or then again maybe he thinks NATO will make the first strike. Not that he is raving bonkers of course.
Russia is beginning to 'prepare their society' to launch a nuclear attack, Zelenskyy says, but adds Putin is 'not ready to do it' (msn.com)

[Sheepy]

What moralistic pose? And your not selective are you  I  don't support Ukraine because of their morals. It's you that wants morals compared, as your request shows. Every situation has different reasons for it to have happened in the first place  I have never fully supported any incursion .but some I regard as justified enough to at least not oppose completely. These are few . Kuwait, was not Sadams to invade, but at the same time the oil was a factor, and the UN formed a coalition not ideal .Isis needed confronting . The very obvious civilian massacre that was taking place in Kosovo ,warranted the two sides being pulled apart ,and that's what happened. Iraq a massive miss informed mistake. Afghanistan not needed . Other than a quick hit on the people that knocked the towers down. Libya, A sad  little adventure. And
Now I have let you divert from Ukraine, but the reason I do so is because those conflicts have  got  little or nothing to do with what Putin does or why he does it in Ukraine. In none the conflicts around the world since world war 2 have the US, or any European country actually stolen land and attached it to their own .
Putin  has invaded a European democracy for the sole purpose of taking their land into not just Russian control but making it Russian territory, a plain and simple illegal land grab. He imitates the men who have caused two of the greatest horror shows Europe has ever known, Napoleon, Hitler.

But then western political interference and regime change in Ukraine created every part of this, not for the first time either, ironically they are now using it for regime change in Russia. 

[Nick]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/10/07/ukraine-news-latest-advances-war-russia-nuclear-putin/

You have to wonder if Vlad is right in the head

I think that can be taken for granted, he's a fruit loop. 

[Good old]

Now the real problem I have with your moralistic pose, is the selective nature of it.
Obviously selective moral outrage is by its very definition fake.

So here is your chance to prove me wrong, lets hear the same level of outrage you reserve for Russians directed at our State and the US for all the illegal and fabricated invasions and bombings and Regime Change operations etc, that we have started and participated in over the last thirty years. Lets hear that same level of venom for the countries that have been attacking nations far from their borders, with whom they have neither cultural nor ethnic links, for pretty much every year over the last thirty...

Come on Good Old, just for me...

What moralistic pose? And your not selective are you  I  don't support Ukraine because of their morals. It's you that wants morals compared, as your request shows. Every situation has different reasons for it to have happened in the first place  I have never fully supported any incursion .but some I regard as justified enough to at least not oppose completely. These are few . Kuwait, was not Sadams to invade, but at the same time the oil was a factor, and the UN formed a coalition not ideal .Isis needed confronting . The very obvious civilian massacre that was taking place in Kosovo ,warranted the two sides being pulled apart ,and that's what happened. Iraq a massive miss informed mistake. Afghanistan not needed . Other than a quick hit on the people that knocked the towers down. Libya, A sad  little adventure. And
Now I have let you divert from Ukraine, but the reason I do so is because those conflicts have  got  little or nothing to do with what Putin does or why he does it in Ukraine. In none the conflicts around the world since world war 2 have the US, or any European country actually stolen land and attached it to their own .
Putin  has invaded a European democracy for the sole purpose of taking their land into not just Russian control but making it Russian territory, a plain and simple illegal land grab. He imitates the men who have caused two of the greatest horror shows Europe has ever known, Napoleon, Hitler.

[Borchester]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/10/07/ukraine-news-latest-advances-war-russia-nuclear-putin/

You have to wonder if Vlad is right in the head

[Sampanviking]

You think I'm a neo liberal do yer. I,ll tell what I am not , Im not a pacifist, or an apologist.
What I am is someone that doesn't accept that any country can enter their neighbours sovereign territory and steal it for any reason.
As for the tripe , and half truths you list . Russian isn't completely banned in Ukraine it is merely demoted as not being a first language, virtually every nation maintains something similar.
Political party's banned ,outlawed . Are you kidding?
Politicians murdered. Russia, are world champions at that. I wouldn't mention it if I was you.
Ethnic cleansing eight years of Russian occupation and where is the proof of anything approaching ethnic cleansing in either Crimea, or Eastern Ukraine.?
As for the collaboration argument you make, pathetic, it might work on children.
Yes there will be personal vendettas, it's a war . But it's the political collaborators the Ukrainian government will be after and why wouldn't they . And of course you leave out the defining factor here, the Ukrainians .are not trying to say there situation is perfect. Only Russia does that.
Why bring any of this into it? It's not a morality contest ,it's a war of Putins making, and the gloves are not on.
I notice the Mods had a word. I didn't know rats where that religious.
I,m cheering nothing on,. Not Putins illegal land grab, and most of all the uncalled for senseless slaughter of all those caught up in this.
But that doesn't mean I will not show support one way or another for a democratic state to fight for the integrity of its internationally recognised territory.  Just as I would support it in every way if it was to happen here.

Now the real problem I have with your moralistic pose, is the selective nature of it.
Obviously selective moral outrage is by its very definition fake.

So here is your chance to prove me wrong, lets hear the same level of outrage you reserve for Russians directed at our State and the US for all the illegal and fabricated invasions and bombings and Regime Change operations etc, that we have started and participated in over the last thirty years. Lets hear that same level of venom for the countries that have been attacking nations far from their borders, with whom they have neither cultural nor ethnic links, for pretty much every year over the last thirty...

Come on Good Old, just for me...

[Good old]

More of your simpering nonsense
"oh the evil Russians are coming to torture the innocent Ukrainian civilians of the Donbass ohhhh ohhhh
Come and save them Vlodimir ohhh ohhhh
"now they are all being forced to vote at gunpoint ohhhh ohhhhh
They even made them all vote yes ohhhhh ohhhhhh
Hopefully the Ukrainian army will punish the naughty that were nasty and sided with the horrid Russians ohhh ohhhh"

This attitude transends simply gullible - this is full on total fecktard level thinking

Of course all the southern areas of Ukraine are Russian. The people are Russian, speak Russian have a Russian culture and most of them want to be out of Ukraine and in Russia, which is why they rose up against the US sponsored Coup in 2014.
ever since they have been attacked in Ukrainian controlled territory and shelled in militia controlled territory
Their language is outlawed and you can be beaten in the street, stripped and tapped to a lamppost if your caught speaking it
Their Political Parties banned and outlawed - included major parties
Their politicians have been attacked. murdered or jailed, including the man who is the official leader of the opposition and yet you prattle on sanctimoniously about freedom and democracy.
Everything that Russia is accused of The Ukraine is guilty of in spades and no amount of spin and Propaganda BS can change that reality
Every measure of sleaze and corruption thrown at Moscow, the Ukraine has also come in lower on every measure.
Bur people are now being brainwashed by idiots like you to throw away there long term financial security for their benefit. Its mental!

Collaboration is pretty much identifying as Russian, so anybody who took part in the Referendum votes or accepted Humanitarian Aid from the Russian state is officially a collaborator and the people they want to "shoot like pigs"
There is plenty of evidence that this is exactly what the Ukrainian nationalist brigades do whenever they have reoccupied territory from the Russians. Most of which is either swept under the carpet by our media or blamed on the Russians. Now of course we have there admission that this is what they do.
This is on the record
Now Zelensky is calling for a preemptive Nuclear strike on the Russian mainland
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1578097733860065281 

So keep cheering for Ethnic Cleansing and all out now, all out Nuclear War - it must feel so worth it!
Worlds gone stark fecking mad and bleating liberal types and now regurgitating full on Neo-Con propaganda!

Mod Notice
Call Zelensky names if you wish but leave out the anti semitism.
Comment removed
You're better than that  SPV.

You think I'm a neo liberal do yer. I,ll tell what I am not , Im not a pacifist, or an apologist.
What I am is someone that doesn't accept that any country can enter their neighbours sovereign territory and steal it for any reason.
As for the tripe , and half truths you list . Russian isn't completely banned in Ukraine it is merely demoted as not being a first language, virtually every nation maintains something similar.
Political party's banned ,outlawed . Are you kidding? 
Politicians murdered. Russia, are world champions at that. I wouldn't mention it if I was you.
Ethnic cleansing eight years of Russian occupation and where is the proof of anything approaching ethnic cleansing in either Crimea, or Eastern Ukraine.?
As for the collaboration argument you make, pathetic, it might work on children.
Yes there will be personal vendettas, it's a war . But it's the political collaborators the Ukrainian government will be after and why wouldn't they . And of course you leave out the defining factor here, the Ukrainians .are not trying to say there situation is perfect. Only Russia does that.
Why bring any of this into it? It's not a morality contest ,it's a war of Putins making, and the gloves are not on.
I notice the Mods had a word. I didn't know rats where that religious.
I,m cheering nothing on,. Not Putins illegal land grab, and most of all the uncalled for senseless slaughter of all those caught up in this.
But that doesn't mean I will not show support one way or another for a democratic state to fight for the integrity of its internationally recognised territory.  Just as I would support it in every way if it was to happen here.

[Barry]

2 Russians just tipped up in a dingy off the coast of Alaska.

I expect the Yanks will give them political asylum. 

[Nick]

I am sure there are ethnic Russians who are being mistreated, especially if they're supporting an invading force that is basically exterminating Ukrainians.  War is hell.  Maybe Putin's henchmen should campaign to have Russia pull out completely if they're so concerned. It isn't like Russians in Russia can do it, considering they would face up to 15 years in prison for challenging Putin.

2 Russians just tipped up in a dingy off the coast of Alaska. 

[Sheepy]

More of your simpering nonsense
"oh the evil Russians are coming to torture the innocent Ukrainian civilians of the Donbass ohhhh ohhhh
Come and save them Vlodimir ohhh ohhhh
"now they are all being forced to vote at gunpoint ohhhh ohhhhh
They even made them all vote yes ohhhhh ohhhhhh
Hopefully the Ukrainian army will punish the naughty that were nasty and sided with the horrid Russians ohhh ohhhh"

This attitude transends simply gullible - this is full on total fecktard level thinking

Of course all the southern areas of Ukraine are Russian. The people are Russian, speak Russian have a Russian culture and most of them want to be out of Ukraine and in Russia, which is why they rose up against the US sponsored Coup in 2014.
ever since they have been attacked in Ukrainian controlled territory and shelled in militia controlled territory
Their language is outlawed and you can be beaten in the street, stripped and tapped to a lamppost if your caught speaking it
Their Political Parties banned and outlawed - included major parties
Their politicians have been attacked. murdered or jailed, including the man who is the official leader of the opposition and yet you prattle on sanctimoniously about freedom and democracy.
Everything that Russia is accused of The Ukraine is guilty of in spades and no amount of spin and Propaganda BS can change that reality
Every measure of sleaze and corruption thrown at Moscow, the Ukraine has also come in lower on every measure.
Bur people are now being brainwashed by idiots like you to throw away there long term financial security for their benefit. Its mental!

Collaboration is pretty much identifying as Russian, so anybody who took part in the Referendum votes or accepted Humanitarian Aid from the Russian state is officially a collaborator and the people they want to "shoot like pigs"
There is plenty of evidence that this is exactly what the Ukrainian nationalist brigades do whenever they have reoccupied territory from the Russians. Most of which is either swept under the carpet by our media or blamed on the Russians. Now of course we have there admission that this is what they do.
This is on the record
Now the little Kosher Rat of Kiev is calling for a preemptive Nuclear strike on the Russian mainland
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1578097733860065281 

So keep cheering for Ethnic Cleansing and all out now, all out Nuclear War - it must feel so worth it!
Worlds gone stark fecking mad and bleating liberal types and now regurgitating full on Neo-Con propaganda!

Neo Liberals are just the worst ain't they? they really believe they know best, if they ain't jabbing you with DNA they are cheering nuclear annihilation. Its all for your own good you know. They love a bit of ethnic cleansing their whole ideology is based on it, from the Middle East across Europe and beyond.