What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[Borg Refinery]

I completely agree, which is why I'm neutral on the Russia Ukraine war.  Both are to blame.  😉

That's a reasonable take, but I'd say whether both are to blame or not, one side invaded the other and crossed a certain red line, imperialism is imperialism and I am against it whoever does it. If Ukraine invaded Russia and started blowing stuff up first, then I'd want Ukraine driven out of Russia instead, so I hope that clears up any misunderstanding on our part

[papasmurf]

Just more conspiracy rubbish about Ukraine blowing the pipeline. Are you going to link to this proof?

Precisely. Personally I doubt a diver did it anyway. It would be a lot easier to use a remotely operated underwater vehicle (ROUV). 

[Nick]

Of course, It's always the Russians wot did it.  Except when it's Ukraine, blowing up the Nord Stream II.  So is this an act of war against Germany?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO_MllEEH50

Just more conspiracy rubbish about Ukraine blowing the pipeline. Are you going to link to this proof? 

[Nick]

No, Ukraine did not remove its own president.  The CIA did.  No, it's wasn't an 'excuse' for invasion.  We aren't talking about excuses.  There is also no excuse for Ukraine to invade Russia.

Where is your proof about the CIA? Even if it was the CIA that has nothing to do with Russia and does not make Ukraine the aggressor as you stated. So what made Ukraine the aggressor in this war?

Russia declared war on Ukraine, they can do what the hell they want from that point on, personally I'd love to see a cruise missile land right on the Kremlin. 

[Scott777]

Ukraine removed a pro-Russian president and returned to its democratic constitution. What has this got to Russia and how is that an excuse for Russia to invade another country? You're deluded.

No, Ukraine did not remove it's own president.  The CIA did.  No, it's wasn't an 'excuse' for invasion.  We aren't talking about excuses.  There is also no excuse for Ukraine to invade Russia.

[Scott777]

Of course, It's always the Russians wot did it.  Except when it's Ukraine, blowing up the Nord Stream II.  So is this an act of war against Germany?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO_MllEEH50

[Scott777]

Indeed, but Russia also groomed presidents in Ukraine and tried to control its politics just like the CIA did, much of the world is a power-play between superpowers as I'm sure you know. The smartest countries sadly have to balance their alliances and only countries like Mongolia seem to be able to successfully play for example, Russia China and the West against each other and remain (at least nominally) independent

I completely agree, which is why I'm neutral on the Russia Ukraine war.  Both are to blame.  😉

[Nick]

What you are missing here is that the Maidan revolution happened BEFORE Russia invaded Crimea.  So as I said, the war was started by revolutionaries.  I will tell you Russia is not THE aggressor, because you are wrong to say Ukrainian revolutionaries are not aggressors.  Firing armaments into foreign territories is not the only way to start a war.

If Ukraine invading Russia is an embarrassment, then Russia invading Ukraine is an embarrassment for the Zelensky regime.  I see this from a neutral perspective, not a hypocritical one.

Ukraine removed a pro-Russian president and returned to its democratic constitution. What has this got to Russia and how is that an excuse for Russia to invade another country? You're deluded. 

[papasmurf]

Now a warrant has been issued for a Ukraine diver accused of blowing up the Nordstream pipeline. 

Wherever did you get the information that a Ukraine diver was involved please? (In other words verifiable link, not Newspaper articles.) This is out of interest on my part. 80 meters, (260feet.) to set explosives is something few divers are capable of, plus it would need a lot of backup, mixed gas kit and a skilled back up team. (Plus an onboard decompression chamber.) 

[Barry]

Now a warrant has been issued for a Ukraine diver accused of blowing up the Nordstream pipeline. It's all becoming clear that Zelensky authorised this sabotage then put out the story the Russians had bombed their own pipeline.
Seems Zelensky can't be trusted and is just as big a liar as the rest - who knew?

[Borg Refinery]

Maidan wasn't just a sham, it was regime change carried out by the CIA.  Ukraine had been a sovereign country until that time.  So the US removed their sovereignty.  If that does not 'justify' Russian invasion, then equally Ukraine is not justified to invade Russia.

Indeed, but Russia also groomed presidents in Ukraine and tried to control its politics just like the CIA did, much of the world is a power-play between superpowers as I'm sure you know. The smartest countries sadly have to balance their alliances and only countries like Mongolia seem to be able to successfully play for example, Russia China and the West against each other and remain (at least nominally) independent

It's sad, but that's how it works, it's a reason why the European Union (despite all its many glaring flaws) is a good idea in theory, whether in practice I don't even know anymore, although it at least (for now..) prevents a war between European states like WWII - which is the main reason for its founding, although even that itself is in jeopardy now [the reason for its founding]

[Scott777]

It's true that the West tried to foment "color revolutions' in Ukraine and Maidan was a sham, but that still doesn't justify Russia invading a sovereign country and terrorising the population

Maidan wasn't just a sham, it was regime change carried out by the CIA.  Ukraine had been a sovereign country until that time.  So the US removed their sovereignty.  If that does not 'justify' Russian invasion, then equally Ukraine is not justified to invade Russia.

[Scott777]

Russia not the aggressor because of what happened in 2014, let me think... Russia invade Ukraine (Crimea), what am I missing here? I have a whole host of friends from Angarsk to Perm to St Petersburg that say you're wrong, most of them are just normal people, trying to live their lives: they are being brutally assaulted by their own country. Don't tell me Russia isn't the aggressor you just make yourself look stupid.

If Russia isn't the aggressor, until this war, who has fired one single piece of armament into Russian territory?

A few observations, no one is going to press the button for an old man like Putin, he will end up with a bit of lead in his ear. If he engages NATO, his only out will be the said instruction to end the world (bit of lead) or complete surrender like Germany did.

You do know that Russia 💩 their pants when Challenger tanks are deployed? Russia's standard routine is retreat and wait for the tanks to run over a land mine, wait for the crew to withdraw and then drop a drone down the open turret cause they can't penetrate the Challengers skin. Well here is the problem for the Ruskies if the U.K. joins in, challenger three has Trophy so no amount of drones are going to bother it. The regiment keeps on advancing until the engineers reach the tank, change the tracks and away it goes.

Ukraine now controls a 1100km section of Russia and has set up a command post, this is a major embarrassment for them.

What you are missing here is that the Maidan revolution happened BEFORE Russia invaded Crimea.  So as I said, the war was started by revolutionaries.  I will tell you Russia is not THE aggressor, because you are wrong to say Ukrainian revolutionaries are not aggressors.  Firing armaments into foreign territories is not the only way to start a war.

If Ukraine invading Russia is an embarrassment, then Russia invading Ukraine is an embarrassment for the Zelensky regime.  I see this from a neutral perspective, not a hypocritical one.

[Borg Refinery]

Ukraine has a huge army also, difference being that they are trained by NATO, and unlike Russia they can adapt dynamically. Russian soldiers either do what the commander told them or they get shot, plus the Ukrainians are fighting for their country, Russian soldiers don't give a 💩 and just want to go home.

No point attacking me over this, I've always hoped Ukraine rebuffed Russia's imperialistic invasion of a sovereign country and hope Putin gets a bloody nose. I'm simply pointing out facts Nick. It's a fact that Russia is THE largest country in the world by land mass, they have vastly more people than Ukraine and don't care about hiring the worst rapist/pedo prisoners to go and fight in their merc forces.

It's hard to beat an enemy that has no morals. The Russian people themselves are lovely and wonderful and I can't speak highly enough of them, but their govt is terrorist, that doesn't mean I'm a fan of Ukraine's corrupt govt either but I still hope they win this war for all our sakes across the world - because imperialism is a demonic ideology and I'll always fight against it whoever does it

[Nick]

Wouldn't be so cocky about Ukraine winning. The Russians have endless bodies to throw at the problem, there's so many of them vs little Ukraine, but Ukraine has held up well against them nicking everything and terrorising the populace

It's true that the West tried to foment "color revolutions' in Ukraine and Maidan was a sham, but that still doesn't justify Russia invading a sovereign country and terrorising the population

Ukraine has a huge army also, difference being that they are trained by NATO, and unlike Russia they can adapt dynamically. Russian soldiers either do what the commander told them or they get shot, plus the Ukrainians are fighting for their country, Russian soldiers don't give a 💩 and just want to go home.