What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[Sampanviking]

Don't be so sure of that, China formed new security pacts with Russia recently and seem to be getting much closer, they seem to care a lot less about their contentions with one another: that's the disputed outer manchuria region ceded in world wars - and mixed use of Rason port in North Korea which they both vie for as well as obvious competition in trade with third countries.

I really don't think Russia are going to surrender in a month, Nick.

I agree with your overall belief that Ukraine will win, however and really don't even see the point in debating Scott, he thinks there's no proof Russia even said they were invading Ukraine. That is beyond ridiculous.

I am fascinated in your blind faith that The Ukraine will win. Can you actually back that up with anything from the ground that supports your view.
Its all the more fascinating as you rightly identify that the Global South is uniting around organisations set up and led by Russia and China, primarily BRICS, but also the SCO and other organisations related to the Belt and Road initiatives.

In trying to isolate Russia, the collective West is succeeding only in Isolating itself and accelerating the the adoption of Eurasian parallel fiscal structures and; consequently accelerating the dumping of the dollar, both in terms of reserves and as the global trading currency. Nothing illustrated this better than Saudi Arabia not renewing its 50 year old agreement with the US to continue with the Petro Dollar.

NATO just looks as flimsy an organisation as an organisation can be, plus for most of its members, its expenditure of equipment to the Ukraine leaving it very exposed and little more than a paper tiger. I have no doubt that Germany's turning off the supply tap is little to do with the "shock news" about the Nord Stream bombers, but much more about the urgent warning from its own Military about the critical depletion of key weapon stocks for its own defence needs.

I have little doubt that Russia will win the war and that its victory will be total. I also have little doubt that the biggest casualty will be NATO's self belief and that it will come down like a house of cards. Most Countries: especially in East Europe, are weather cocks. They swung West in the 90's when Russia lost the Cold War, they will swing back East when Russia wins this one. Especially to a Russia that is aligned with the worlds greatest wealth creation areas in SE Asia.

[Nick]

Russia didn't do that.  It was obviously the plan for NATO / US to keep chipping away at Russia, and eventually weaken them, so NATO / US can take one step closer to global domination.  Russia is a thorn in their side.  Russia provides to us things such as info which our own media prefer to censor.  This makes it a bit harder for our establishment to control the narrative.  For example, RT covered protests during lockdowns, which our media either omitted, or made look bad.  Even GB News took a dump on the protests, because GB News serves Bill Gates, which is why they are jab-pushers.

So, NATO / EU expansion into Ukraine was inevitable.  That's why Russia invaded first.  The proof if this intention has been exposed, now that Ukraine is trying to expand into Russia.

Russia provides info   Nothing that comes out of Russia is true. 

[Nick]

No, you misunderstand.  I believe Russia invaded.  Nick likes to ask for proof of things.  So I'm just asking for his proof that Russia declared it.  Where is the declaration?

Now who is backtracking? You said Ukraine was the aggressor. 

[Borg Refinery]

Russia didn't do that.  It was obviously the plan for NATO / US to keep chipping away at Russia, and eventually weaken them, so NATO / US can take one step closer to global domination.  Russia is a thorn in their side.  Russia provides to us things such as info which our own media prefer to censor.  This makes it a bit harder for our establishment to control the narrative.  For example, RT covered protests during lockdowns, which our media either omitted, or made look bad.  Even GB News took a dump on the protests, because GB News serves Bill Gates, which is why they are jab-pushers.

So, NATO / EU expansion into Ukraine was inevitable.  That's why Russia invaded first.  The proof if this intention has been exposed, now that Ukraine is trying to expand into Russia.

GB News serves Bill Gates, now I've heard it all

[Borg Refinery]

No, you misunderstand.  I believe Russia invaded.  Nick likes to ask for proof of things.  So I'm just asking for his proof that Russia declared it.  Where is the declaration?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/putins-speech-declaring-war-on-ukraine-translated-excerpts

[Scott777]

The only thing Russia has achieved is bringing NATO even closer to its doorstep, and at some point Ukraine will join NATO and Russia will be surrounded.

Russia didn't do that.  It was obviously the plan for NATO / US to keep chipping away at Russia, and eventually weaken them, so NATO / US can take one step closer to global domination.  Russia is a thorn in their side.  Russia provides to us things such as info which our own media prefer to censor.  This makes it a bit harder for our establishment to control the narrative.  For example, RT covered protests during lockdowns, which our media either omitted, or made look bad.  Even GB News took a dump on the protests, because GB News serves Bill Gates, which is why they are jab-pushers.

So, NATO / EU expansion into Ukraine was inevitable.  That's why Russia invaded first.  The proof if this intention has been exposed, now that Ukraine is trying to expand into Russia.

[Scott777]

You don't even appear to believe that Russia actually even declared they were invading Ukraine.

No, you misunderstand.  I believe Russia invaded.  Nick likes to ask for proof of things.  So I'm just asking for his proof that Russia declared it.  Where is the declaration?

[Scott777]

Do they need to declare it? There is satellite footage of them invading 🤦

Yeah, but I'm pretending to be you, asking for proof of things as if that's all that matters.  You claimed they declared it.  Now you're back-tracking.  I think I made my point.

[Borg Refinery]

You don't need many nukes or for them to be that effective to kill billions, if he's got pancreatic cancer as they speculate, he might think he's gonna die anyway so why not take the world out with him. He seems too cowardly for that, but you never really know.

IIRC South Africa is officially neutral but in reality more aligned with Russia, which is worrying.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230817-south-africa-and-russia-the-strange-bedfellows

Maybe the new SA coalition, even though I don't like it, will help crimp the more pro Russian politicians and their beliefs given the Marxist EFF didn't get in.

Looks like India ditched Russian arms as of Jun 2024, so good on them, they're pivoting away from Russia after all. Also interesting to note the ruling BJP party lost its majority this year in the gen election.

[Nick]

I think the bigger problem we really face as regards world war is countries like India and South Africa picking sides with Russia and China's new "axis", if Iran side with them too which they prob will and obviously North Korea (although it's a silly country in terms of military), we face a viable threat given Europe's lack of military preparedness and the United States military is a shell of its former self.

Pretty sure we'll still win a world war, but it's so stupid to have another world war, you'd think we'd learn our lessons from the past.

Don't think SA would side with Russia, they are far enough away from the northern hemisphere to want to keep out of it, speaking to a lot of Indian people as I am, it seems India is keeping totally neutral also. I genuinely think Putin's days are numbered and a bit of lead with his name out it is due. Who is stupid enough to follow an order to push the button knowing what is coming back the other way. Russia's stock of nukes are that old and they haven't been able to keep up with servicing them due to finances, most of them probably won't fire anyway. 

[Borg Refinery]

немецкий иди нахи

(Germany go f yourself)

Germany to halt new Ukraine military aid: Report The ban, which is already in place, will affect all new requests for assistance to Kyiv, Germany's FAZ newspaper reported.


This is over the guy they think did the Nord Stream bombing. It might be mostly symbolic however:

In a letter sent to the German defense ministry on Aug. 5, Finance Minister Christian Lindner said that future funding would no longer come from Germany's federal budget but from proceeds from frozen Russian assets, according to the German newspaper.

It also only affects new requests for aid and not prev auth'd ones, so only time will tell what this really means for Ukraine, maybe the Nemetsy are just sending out a signal to Ukraine not to mess with their gas

[Borg Refinery]

By the way, it's also another reason I personally wasn't against Rishi Sunak's national service stuff... if we're facing a world war every country needs a large army of well trained men and women. The lefties rarely think ahead with this stuff..

[Borg Refinery]

I think the bigger problem we really face as regards world war is countries like India and South Africa picking sides with Russia and China's new "axis", if Iran side with them too which they prob will and obviously North Korea (although it's a silly country in terms of military), we face a viable threat given Europe's lack of military preparedness and the United States military is a shell of its former self.

Pretty sure we'll still win a world war, but it's so stupid to have another world war, you'd think we'd learn our lessons from the past.

[Borg Refinery]

Don't be so sure of that, China formed new security pacts with Russia recently and seem to be getting much closer, they seem to care a lot less about their contentions with one another: that's the disputed outer manchuria region ceded in world wars - and mixed use of Rason port in North Korea which they both vie for as well as obvious competition in trade with third countries.

I really don't think Russia are going to surrender in a month, Nick.

I agree with your overall belief that Ukraine will win, however and really don't even see the point in debating Scott, he thinks there's no proof Russia even said they were invading Ukraine. That is beyond ridiculous.

[Nick]

Well, I'm going to pretend to be Nick for a moment, and ask for your proof that Russia invaded "under imperial pretexts".  🤔

So you think Ukraine invading Russia is justified to make Russia leave them alone?  Ok, so how about Russia knew Ukraine was going to become part of an expanded NATO / EU, so invaded to get Ukraine to leave them alone?  This is a neutral position, without hypocrisy.

If someone attacked England, under exactly the same circumstances, then I would be against invading or bombing them.  I would want us to surrender, so we could get the puppet government removed.

The only thing Russia has achieved is bringing NATO even closer to its doorstep, and at some point Ukraine will join NATO and Russia will be surrounded. And the only reason NATO exists is because Russia is such a loose cannon. The second Gorbachev allowed any form of democracy everyone buggered off, why? because nobody wanted communist rule, Putin just wants everyone back, he can't because most states joined NATO and Russia is 💩 scared of NATO. China has told Putin in uncertain terms they will not allow any form of nuclear retaliation so that leaves conventional warfare and Russia stands no chance of lasting even a month without surrendering.