What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[cromwell]

Whilst I agree gulf war 2 was a complete clusterfuck and we were certainly in the wrong - this argument is basically "we did a shitty thing before so we should allow other people to do shitty things

Don't put words in my mouth that's not what I was saying at all

One major point that the West's adventures in the Middle East significantly differ from Russia's invasion is that the west never had making Iraq and Afghanistan part of the USA/UK as a goal. We may have wanted them to have western facing governments but we never annexed them. 

Blair playing cowboys and Indians with Bush resulted in the rapid rise of IS,misery for tens of thousands probably more Iraqis and others, massive instability in the Middle East and the pathetic Arab spring a desperate attempt to push our values on another culture.


Add to that the dead and maimed military of ours that lost out whilst that grinning bastard Blair made millions and the massive increase in Islamic terrorism so please don't be minimising what that pair did compared to Putin.

[papasmurf]

And there lies your problem, everything you think you know about Russia comes from the Russian media which is controlled by the Kremlin. I've been there and have experienced it, I also have friends there that are telling me Income Tax has been doubled. I know who I believe.

I don't know how credible this is:-

Russia Is Preparing New Tax Hikes. Here's Why. - The Moscow Times

May 31, 2024

What are the proposed changes?

Russia's income tax rate currently stands at 13% for people earning less than 5 million rubles per year ($55,850) and 15% for those earning more — a levy on higher earners introduced in 2021.

Under the Finance Ministry's progressive tax plan, the following annual income brackets would be introduced:

• 2.4 million to 5 million rubles — taxed at 15%
• 5 million to 20 million rubles — taxed at 18%
• 20 million to 50 million rubles — taxed at 20%
• 50 million rubles or higher — taxed at 22%

Russians earning less than 200,000 rubles ($2,200) per month — or 2.4 million ($26,500) annually — would not see any tax hike with the proposed changes. Likewise, the increases would not apply to men fighting in Ukraine, some of whom have seen their salaries balloon over the past two years.

[Nick]

Everything I have read says that personal Income tax in Russia is 13%. How exactly is that starving people into conscription? Contract soldiers are offered generous bonuses to sign up apparently, but that is entirely voluntary.

Nobody has answered by simple earlier question I see.
Not that it matters, Russia continues to advance and the Ukraine Militarily and now apparently politically as well, is falling apart.

And there lies your problem, everything you think you know about Russia comes from the Russian media which is controlled by the Kremlin. I've been there and have experienced it, I also have friends there that are telling me Income Tax has been doubled. I know who I believe. 

[BeElBeeBub]

I am totally opposed to Putin and the invasion of the Ukraine but to that in bold Sampan has a point if you look at what Bush and Blair did and the aftermath they are as  criminal as Putin.

Whilst I agree gulf war 2 was a complete clusterfuck and we were certainly in the wrong - this argument is basically "we did a shitty thing before so we should allow other people to do shitty things now" 

One major point that the West's adventures in the Middle East significantly differ from Russia's invasion is that the west never had making Iraq and Afghanistan part of the USA/UK as a goal. We may have wanted them to have western facing governments but we never annexed them. 

Russia claims Ukraine is rightfully part of Russia.  It has already annexed Crimea and (bits of) Donbas.

Russia is waging a war of territorial expansion - "lebenstraum" if you will. 

[cromwell]

I acknowledge that they did exactly what we would have done if the situation was reversed. I never could understand or simply stand the Wests holier than thou BS. I have no doubt that in reverse circumstances, you and those like you, would be the loudest screaming for blood.

The West has also invaded Sovereign countries, what makes this ok in your eyes?

I am totally opposed to Putin and the invasion of the Ukraine but to that in bold Sampan has a point if you look at what Bush and Blair did and the aftermath they are as  criminal as Putin.

[Sampanviking]

You've never been to Russia have you, you have no idea what it's like living in Russia. Putin has just doubled income tax to make it impossible to live, men have no choice but volunteer to fight, as he also increased military wages and lowered income tax for military personnel. Comparing U.K. Prime Ministers to Putin is ridiculous.

Everything I have read says that personal Income tax in Russia is 13%. How exactly is that starving people into conscription? Contract soldiers are offered generous bonuses to sign up apparently, but that is entirely voluntary.

Nobody has answered by simple earlier question I see.
Not that it matters, Russia continues to advance and the Ukraine Militarily and now apparently politically as well, is falling apart.

[Unlucky4Sum]

That's ok, they probably all killed themselves, just like David Kelly did.  😉

Do grow up.  

[BeElBeeBub]

It's true.  Which is why I believe we should not have anything to do with Ukraine.  I'm against helping them, just as I'm against helping Russia.  A completely neutral position.  😉

"We should be neutral" is taking Russia's side. 

If everyone stood aside as a "neutral" then Russian would win.  Which is why Russia really likes the idea.

Putin is at war, we are not.  But in terms of authoritarianism, the leaders are the same.  They were even talking about conscription, if I recall rightly, even though we are not at war.  We have a police state.  We have people fast-tracked to prison.  And we have no democracy.  So if you think that's not a dictatorship, pray tell, what is it?

Conscriotion came up in the comtext of a war with Russia you donut.

It's becoming clear that Russia is very happy to use it's manpower advantage coupled with absolute disregard for it's own soldiers lives. 

We would struggle against Russia simply because even if we kill 10 of their soldiers for every one of ours, they would happily lose 150k men to hollow out the British army. In that context we would need conscription. 

We don't have a ploce state and nobody is fast tracked to prison. Everyone has a trial, the right to defence and appeal. 

When was the last time a UK opposition politician was jailed? When was the last time one fell out of a window? 

[Nick]

Putin is at war, we are not.  But in terms of authoritarianism, the leaders are the same.  They were even talking about conscription, if I recall rightly, even though we are not at war.  We have a police state.  We have people fast-tracked to prison.  And we have no democracy.  So if you think that's not a dictatorship, pray tell, what is it?

So that makes it ok to starve families into conscription?
Also, not heard of any political opposition in the U.K. disappearing or getting necked. 

[Scott777]

And then there's the relatively short lifespan of journalists that investigate his or his friends doings.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

That's ok, they probably all killed themselves, just like David Kelly did.  😉

[Scott777]

You've never been to Russia have you, you have no idea what it's like living in Russia. Putin has just doubled income tax to make it impossible to live, men have no choice but volunteer to fight, as he also increased military wages and lowered income tax for military personnel. Comparing U.K. Prime Ministers to Putin is ridiculous.

Putin is at war, we are not.  But in terms of authoritarianism, the leaders are the same.  They were even talking about conscription, if I recall rightly, even though we are not at war.  We have a police state.  We have people fast-tracked to prison.  And we have no democracy.  So if you think that's not a dictatorship, pray tell, what is it?

[Unlucky4Sum]

You've never been to Russia have you, you have no idea what it's like living in Russia. Putin has just doubled income tax to make it impossible to live, men have no choice but volunteer to fight, as he also increased military wages and lowered income tax for military personnel. Comparing U.K. Prime Ministers to Putin is ridiculous.

And then there's the relatively short lifespan of journalists that investigate his or his friends doings.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

[papasmurf]

It's called sabotage, conducted by anti-Putin rebels.

That would not surprise me. It does appear a lot of damage is being done.

[Nick]

No more than Keir Stalin, or Bozo the Johnson.  And Sleepy Joe makes Putin look like an intellectual wizard.

You've never been to Russia have you, you have no idea what it's like living in Russia. Putin has just doubled income tax to make it impossible to live, men have no choice but volunteer to fight, as he also increased military wages and lowered income tax for military personnel. Comparing U.K. Prime Ministers to Putin is ridiculous. 

[Scott777]

That's cause he is a deranged dictator.

No more than Keir Stalin, or Bozo the Johnson.  And Sleepy Joe makes Putin look like the world's greatest genius.