What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[Scott777]

Why thr F@@@ would the west want to. Invade Russia?

A thorn in the side of global government.

[BeElBeeBub]

.

So pissed off about not going to euro Disney they started a violent revolution?  Going to uncle Vlad's place was actually part of his campaign (promise of better relations with Russia).

Yes. 

For several years VY had been touting the association agreement. He had been cajolijg his parliament to pass the necessary laws. The population could see that. They were looking forward to a slice of what Poland and Slovakia and Romania had got when they started moving closer to the EU.

The important fact is that nothing in the association agreement said "you can't be friends with Russia". 

The initial. Protest weren't violent at all. Some slight scuffle which are to expected whenever you have thousands in a. Tight space with riot police. But nothing major. 

Here are some contemporary news articles

BBC 7 days in
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25162563

Kyiv Post 5 days in
https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/content/euromaidan/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-nov-21-23-coverage-332423.html

Usually violent coups are fast and involve the army taking over. If you as staging a coup you need speed. You can't sit around whilst a bunch of civilians build campfires and sing aongs and hope thr leadership decides to quit. 

[BeElBeeBub]

It will be a sad day if Ukraine don't get all their territory back and are forced to concede large parts of it, there have been widespread abuses in Russian-held territory and that is truly appalling for the Ukies who lived there their entire lives

On this we can agree. 

[BeElBeeBub]

I have no idea what you tried to write with all the typos and random full stops and all kinds of gibberish you were putting into that post, maybe your comp is malfunctioning, but I can't read it and don't intend to try and read the rest, it appears not to be me who's struggling ..

Yeah sorry about those. I use a phone and my phone keyboard has a bad habit of registering a space bar as a "." which then automatically capitalises so. You. End. Up. With. This. Sort. Of. Thing. 

Add to that the fact this site is really bad on mobile - the font in miniscule, can't be increased and the editing window is only 10 lines deep with a very hard scroll bar to use and it becomes a but hard to get all the typos. I usually have to post then modify, but sometimes I get distracted away or just can't be arsed 

[BeElBeeBub]

If Russia didn't have nukes (just like NK and Iran), it's probable the West would just bulldoze their way through Russia

Why thr F@@@ would the west want to. Invade Russia?

It's near empty. It's just a mass of open space. 
Sure they have natural resoruces but we were doing perfectly well trading BMWS and London real estate for it and most of the actual extraction was done by western companies anyway. Russia.has relatively little expertise and equipment. 

It was much less effort to pay the Russian government it's kickback for joint ventures and grease a few oligarchs palms than occupying a massive country. 

[BeElBeeBub]

Well no worries, we all saw what you wrote before

They weren't nationalists who were Nazi collaborators, they were Nazis, They killed Jews and Poles and wore National Socialist symbols.

There's nothing patriotic about what they did.

Sorry, but it doesn't make us ones who "struggle" for reading your words as they were clearly intended before, you downplayed Nazi atrocities and presented the Soviets as the worse option. That's Western propaganda of the worst kind

Patriots are very often arseholes. 

SB and his band were as bad and culpable as anyone wearing a swastika and killing jews/poles/roma etc.

None the less he is viewed (by some Ukrainians) as a man who fought for Ukrainian identity against the Soviets.

And the Soviets were no better than the NAZIs - they were equally brutal, killed huge numbers of people and they were literal allies of the NAZIs at one point.

Stalin collaborated with the NAZIs and was amonsrorus dictator who consigned millions to their deaths. Yet would you deny that some Russians see him as a national hero?

Someone can be an absolute shit and still be regarded (wrongly in my opinion) as a national hero.

So. Again (and for the last time) I am not and have not apologised or minimised the crimes of the Nazis or their allies. They all deserve to burn for eternity.

I'll not respond to any more of your baiting on this subject as it is just a diversionary tactic at this point away from your unwittingly support of Russia. 

[BeElBeeBub]

The stuff on RT.com is often as counter-factual as Western media, if not more so, not that I am in favour of censoring it.

And Putin himself is just as greedy and corrupt as any Western leader, they really are no better the govt over there, they just decided to invade another country and that's the main difference, ours are just better at hiding it

I think the phrasing "just as greedy and corrupt....." is bad. 

Can you name a Western leader who has ordered as many killings and disappearing of opposition? 

One who has dipped their beak in the pot as much? Any other world leader own a £500m super yacht? 

Has any western president bypassed the term limit? Or even remained in power for over 2 decades?

Whilst you may take issue with the wests involvement in thr ME over the last 2 decades, it pales in comparison to Georgia, Checnya and Ukraine. Or. It's involvement with Syria. 

Our leaders may not be spotless but Putin is another level. 

[Scott777]

Did you actually search the article for the word 'sniper'.  Of course you didn't.  Now run along and do it and educate yourself.

Yes I did.  Your claim is false.  Now run along to detention where you will learn to stop lying.

[Unlucky4Sum]

What you did there is like media propaganda.  You made a claim about VY ordering snipers to shoot unarmed protesters, then post a link which makes no such claim.  If you're going to post a link, try to make the effort of saying why.  What are you trying to show?

Did you actually search the article for the word 'sniper'.  Of course you didn't.  Now run along and do it and educate yourself.

[Barry]

It's pretty sickening to wee Russia cosying up to Iran, as they are the biggest state sponsors of terrorism in the region and around the world.
They bankrolled Hamas and Hezbollah, supplying rockets, drones and bombs.
Who would want a terrorist state and the IRGC helping with an unjust war in Ukraine? It's sick.

[Nick]

It will be a sad day if Ukraine don't get all their territory back and are forced to concede large parts of it, there have been widespread abuses in Russian-held territory and that is truly appalling for the Ukies who lived there their entire lives

I'm hearing figures that Russia has lost 75% of its arms in this war, no wonder they are looking to Iran and others for help. 

[Streetwalker]

It will be a sad day if Ukraine don't get all their territory back and are forced to concede large parts of it, there have been widespread abuses in Russian-held territory and that is truly appalling for the Ukies who lived there their entire lives

Indeed though they will probably have to if there is going to be any sort of settlement . Russia will not give up Crimea and Putin will need some sort of gain in other regions to sell his victory to the Russian people .
The alternative is to go all in with Ukraine , give them what they need and the green light to use it . 

[Borg Refinery]

It will be a sad day if Ukraine don't get all their territory back and are forced to concede large parts of it, there have been widespread abuses in Russian-held territory and that is truly appalling for the Ukies who lived there their entire lives

[Scott777]

Your corrupt, embezzling, Putin aligning man was voted out of office after members of his own party discovered he had ordered snipers to shoot unarmed protesters.  No revolution.

Here have the contemporaneous account of events of that day  https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-feb-21-live-updates-337287.html

'Parliament votes 328-0 to impeach Yanukovych'

What you did there is like media propaganda.  You made a claim about VY ordering snipers to shoot unarmed protesters, then post a link which makes no such claim.  If you're going to post a link, try to make the effort of saying why.  What are you trying to show?

[Scott777]

They provide you with official Kremlin lies is what they do.

I'm sure they do.  As do all the media around the world.  But sometimes, Russia provides the truth, as I said before, like doing livestreams of protests.