What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[Sheepy]

As for turning the EU and US into nuclear crisps I really don't think that will be the answer to all of your problems somehow. 

[Sheepy]

I'm not an expert,never claimed to be,what I am doing is expressing an opinion here on a political forum which you appear to find an affront,I doubt there are any but maybe the odd one with an experience of warfare on here.

I find your opinions an affront because they are based on media psychology and pure lies, it isn't the first time we have been in this rodeo either, you use your position as a mod to try and drown out anything that is beyond your own level of understanding, it won't stop me pointing it out or standing up for other posters point of view, especially when they have taken the time to take in all sides before they form an opinion. 

[cromwell]

Why not, it has caused a war which you seem to think you are an expert on from reading the media. Which is openly lying for an agenda.

I'm not an expert,never claimed to be,what I am doing is expressing an opinion here on a political forum which you appear to find an affront,I doubt there are any but maybe the odd one with an experience of warfare on here.

[Sheepy]

In short, whatever happened in Kosovo, is not what governs what happens in Ukraine. In short if he wants peace get out of someone else's country and stop killing its peoples. It's as simple as that.
In answer to your reasoning. If the war was about illuminating a few hundred, even  thousand Nazis, there was no justification what so ever for wrecking the whole country whilst killing its children. Ukraine starts at the border with Russia, that's what was agreed in 1991, that's what Ukrainians clearly wanted in 1991. Russia, had already annexed parts of Ukraine, in 2014. And coming to any understanding under duress to limit more  bloodshed has proved a big mistake for Ukraine, the goal posts are  at the 1991 border, mate. Putin is pissed off because they have not moved. Just because the Ukrainians have ever said they might let him piss on them, because he was already threatening destruction is no justification for his crime in attacking all parts of Ukraine ,until they concede everyone of his demands.
The rest of my post is not rambling. It makes the clear assertion that Putin, has miscalculated and f—ked up in an extensive and major fashion. Something you can not accept.
Russian defence. When was it ever likely NATO the west was ever going to invade Russia,? In most respect Russia is already bordered by NATO. Russia, could never be held down against its will ,anymore than the western world could be. The truth is Russia, suffers from the paranoia of its leader, trying to relive the politics of Russias past regarding the peoples that live next to it. In fact most of Russias excuses for this, we're not facts , they hadn't happened and may never have happened. And if anything is fact,  he Putin ,is making the case for Ukraine to have ever considered entering in to NATO. Just as it does for everyone of his neighbours that don't want him running their affairs by proxy.

Except of course it does, it is the same ethnic basis, although when it suits that can be ignored.  

[Good old]

How very cute. The drone thinks the conflict began in Kosovo and started when NATO bombed for "peace". I didn't mention Kosovo because I specifically didn't want to discuss that part of the Yugoslav wars but in regards to Serbia and Bosnia.

As for Nazis, I haven't said Ukraine are Nazis, but that part of the war was in regards to denazification of Ukraine. Sometimes you really do need to call a spade a spade. The Azov battalion are in all definition of the meaning Nazis, who are part of the Ukraine defence force and as such should never have been. That shouldn't be so hard for anyone to understand but because Zelensky is Jewish, we seem to ignore the other stuff in the Western media and focus on that rather than understand that at the very least we should be condemning Nazi regiments in the Ukrainian army if nothing else.

On the point about Ukraine giving in, I haven't said that. I said they shouldn't change what they have already agreed on and negotiate with Russia with good faith. Ironically talks were going better when Russia was attacking Keiv than they are now they pulled out because the pressure is to some extent is off for Ukraine and they think they can row back on previous pledges. No, the goal should be ending this war. Push forward to what the original objective was which is security guarantees for Ukraine and getting Russia to retreat to their original position and not moving goal posts delaying talks further by asking for more than you previously asked for.

The rest of you post is rambling. Sure Sweden, Finland, Germany need to take their defence seriously, but so does everyone else. Let's not forget that part of this conflict was Russia taking their defence seriously and NATO telling them to get over it. We wouldn't accept the Russian military arming the teeth out of say Ireland so I fail to understand why we think Ukraine in NATO was going to accepted by Russia. If our word was worth anything we should have kept our promise and not expanded East like we said we do. Instead we caused conflict where conflict need not have existed.

In short, whatever happened in Kosovo, is not what governs what happens in Ukraine. In short if he wants peace get out of someone else's country and stop killing its peoples. It's as simple as that.
In answer to your reasoning. If the war was about eliminating a few hundred, even  thousand Nazis, there was no justification what so ever for wrecking the whole country whilst killing its children. Ukraine starts at the border with Russia, that's what was agreed in 1991, that's what Ukrainians clearly wanted in 1991. Russia, had already annexed parts of Ukraine, in 2014. And coming to any understanding under duress to limit more  bloodshed has proved a big mistake for Ukraine, the goal posts are  at the 1991 border, mate. Putin is pissed off because they have not moved. Just because the Ukrainians have ever said they might let him piss on them, because he was already threatening destruction is no justification for his crime in attacking all parts of Ukraine ,until they concede everyone of his demands.
The rest of my post is not rambling. It makes the clear assertion that Putin, has miscalculated and f—ked up in an extensive and major fashion. Something you can not accept.
Russian defence. When was it ever likely NATO the west was ever going to invade Russia,? In most respect Russia is already bordered by NATO. Russia, could never be held down against its will ,anymore than the western world could be. The truth is Russia, suffers from the paranoia of its leader, trying to relive the politics of Russias past regarding the peoples that live next to it. In fact most of Russias excuses for this, we're not facts , they hadn't happened and may never have happened. And if anything is fact,  he Putin ,is making the case for Ukraine to have ever considered entering in to NATO. Just as it does for everyone of his neighbours that don't want him running their affairs by proxy.

[Sheepy]

Im not going in to the rights and wrongs of nato expanding

Why not, it has caused a war which you seem to think you are an expert on from reading the media. Which is openly lying for an agenda.

[cromwell]

How very cute. The drone thinks the conflict began in Kosovo and started when NATO bombed for "peace". I didn't mention Kosovo because I specifically didn't want to discuss that part of the Yugoslav wars but in regards to Serbia and Bosnia.

As for Nazis, I haven't said Ukraine are Nazis, but that part of the war was in regards to denazification of Ukraine. Sometimes you really do need to call a spade a spade. The Azov battalion are in all definition of the meaning Nazis, who are part of the Ukraine defence force and as such should never have been. That shouldn't be so hard for anyone to understand but because Zelensky is Jewish, we seem to ignore the other stuff in the Western media and focus on that rather than understand that at the very least we should be condemning Nazi regiments in the Ukrainian army if nothing else.

On the point about Ukraine giving in, I haven't said that. I said they shouldn't change what they have already agreed on and negotiate with Russia with good faith. Ironically talks were going better when Russia was attacking Keiv than they are now they pulled out because the pressure is to some extent is off for Ukraine and they think they can row back on previous pledges. No, the goal should be ending this war. Push forward to what the original objective was which is security guarantees for Ukraine and getting Russia to retreat to their original position and not moving goal posts delaying talks further by asking for more than you previously asked for.

The rest of you post is rambling. Sure Sweden, Finland, Germany need to take their defence seriously, but so does everyone else. Let's not forget that part of this conflict was Russia taking their defence seriously and NATO telling them to get over it. We wouldn't accept the Russian military arming the teeth out of say Ireland so I fail to understand why we think Ukraine in NATO was going to accepted by Russia. If our word was worth anything we should have kept our promise and not expanded East like we said we do. Instead we caused conflict where conflict need not have existed.

What you have failed to do though and ignored there are obviously Nazi sympathisers within Russia even at the highest levels which rather takes the wind out of the whole Russia is denazifying the Ukraine because that's what's being sold to the Russian populace.

Im not going in to the rights and wrongs of nato expanding,what I will say though is we cannot expect a country to live under a cloud of coercion from their neighbour to suit us when they say "hey we like the look of what you've got and want the same"

[Sheepy]

Caitlin Johnstone: US officials admit they're literally just lying to the public about Russia — RT World News
I told you Biden isn't running squat; it is all about the drama and psychology the neoliberals lap it up. 

[B0ycey]

The only question is what are you on about? Serbia vs Bosnia, does not copy . Genocide fully documented by the Serbs, has not been repeated. It makes no difference , if you think NATO action was wrong, then he can not be right.  According to you and Putin, Ukrainian nationalist patriots are Nazis, Russian nationalist patriots are fine upstanding individuals. As said both sides contain some Nazis. Ukraines are few in number and do not define the government. It's another pathetic excuse. The great Russian argument , he could stop this war ,just give in . Pathetic. And the west . They should have said yes mister Putin, as there is not a chance in hell we are going to invade Russia, and you have a frigging great armed potential you dont know what to do with,
We should tell the Ukrainians independence is the last thing they should value.
The biggest mistake is to have played his hand in this way. Finland on the verge of wanting NATO, regardless of more threats from peace loving Vald,  the Swedes reevaluating their position . The Germans finally taking their defence seriously. And every existing NATO member preparing to follow suit. And regardless of this it's highly likely he will get not much out of Ukraine, his present casualties are for a six week campaign only slightly less than the daily average for For the British, in WW1.
And its not anywhere near over unless he gets out. And if he gets out he will be lucky if he gets much at all.
And to go with that his economy is going to be on the floor. Now even if that does not pan out quiet like that,
It's a mistake all right , because he has proved so inept he could even yet provoke an even bigger conflict, that nobody wants for obvious reasons, that he could not win. Even with Nuks. It's a mistake all right.

How very cute. The drone thinks the conflict began in Kosovo and started when NATO bombed for "peace". I didn't mention Kosovo because I specifically didn't want to discuss that part of the Yugoslav wars but in regards to Serbia and Bosnia.

As for Nazis, I haven't said Ukraine are Nazis, but that part of the war was in regards to denazification of Ukraine. Sometimes you really do need to call a spade a spade. The Azov battalion are in all definition of the meaning Nazis, who are part of the Ukraine defence force and as such should never have been. That shouldn't be so hard for anyone to understand but because Zelensky is Jewish, we seem to ignore the other stuff in the Western media and focus on that rather than understand that at the very least we should be condemning Nazi regiments in the Ukrainian army if nothing else.

On the point about Ukraine giving in, I haven't said that. I said they shouldn't change what they have already agreed on and negotiate with Russia with good faith. Ironically talks were going better when Russia was attacking Keiv than they are now they pulled out because the pressure is to some extent is off for Ukraine and they think they can row back on previous pledges. No, the goal should be ending this war. Push forward to what the original objective was which is security guarantees for Ukraine and getting Russia to retreat to their original position and not moving goal posts delaying talks further by asking for more than you previously asked for.

The rest of you post is rambling. Sure Sweden, Finland, Germany need to take their defence seriously, but so does everyone else. Let's not forget that part of this conflict was Russia taking their defence seriously and NATO telling them to get over it. We wouldn't accept the Russian military arming the teeth out of say Ireland so I fail to understand why we think Ukraine in NATO was going to accepted by Russia. If our word was worth anything we should have kept our promise and not expanded East like we said we do. Instead we caused conflict where conflict need not have existed.

[T00ts]

I can't get beyond the fact that Russian women and children are not being buried under bombed rubble or killed in the street or abused. Only Ukrainian. Doesn't that count for anything?

[Good old]

What you talking about Good Old? Zelensky is one half of a civil war which is very much the same as Serbia vs Bosnia. And perhaps Zelensky should have implemented the Minsk agreement to its fullest or not enlisted Nazis into his army or expelled them to be more accurate which could have helped. But honestly, in terms of failings, his fault isn't so much the cause of the war but how he is acting currently. He keeps on changing his terms which is delaying talks. He is also using inflammatory language. So in that sense he is currently prolonging the war.  But sure, he isn't the main player of all this given most of it could have been avoided had the West presented dialogue on equal terms and addressed Russian concerns on their security.

As for Russia massive mistake, I wonder if talks are concluded and the result is Ukraine being a neutral state, given that is what Russia were asking for in order t9 withdraw their army from Ukraines border in February, that could be described as a mistake at all.

The only question is what are you on about? Serbia vs Bosnia, does not copy . Genocide fully documented by the Serbs, has not been repeated. It makes no difference , if you think NATO action was wrong, then he can not be right.  According to you and Putin, Ukrainian nationalist patriots are Nazis, Russian nationalist patriots are fine upstanding individuals. As said both sides contain some Nazis. Ukraines are few in number and do not define the government. It's another pathetic excuse. The great Russian argument , he could stop this war ,just give in . Pathetic. And the west . They should have said yes mister Putin, as there is not a chance in hell we are going to invade Russia, and you have a frigging great armed potential you dont know what to do with,
We should tell the Ukrainians independence is the last thing they should value.
The biggest mistake is to have played his hand in this way. Finland on the verge of wanting NATO, regardless of more threats from peace loving Vald,  the Swedes reevaluating their position . The Germans finally taking their defence seriously. And every existing NATO member preparing to follow suit. And regardless of this it's highly likely he will get not much out of Ukraine, his present casualties are for a six week campaign only slightly less than the daily average for For the British, in WW1.
And its not anywhere near over unless he gets out. And if he gets out he will be lucky if he gets much at all.
And to go with that his economy is going to be on the floor. Now even if that does not pan out quiet like that,
It's a mistake all right , because he has proved so inept he could even yet provoke an even bigger conflict, that nobody wants for obvious reasons, that he could not win. Even with Nuks. It's a mistake all right.

[Sampanviking]

When propaganda goes wrong

https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1512365048018132997?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1512365048018132997%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnewcastle-online.org%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmobile.twitter.com%2FJulianRoepcke%2Fstatus%2F1512365048018132997%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw

Well I say that Twitter feed is Bulwarks from beginning to end.
What I do see is yet a again an inexplicable and pointless event with no benefit to the supposed perpetrator whatsoever happening just as a Pro Western Army or Militia is just about to get its backside handed to it on a plate. Its happens so often you can pretty much set your watch by it.

Now here is the thing.
Just a few hours earlier and less than fifty miles away, on a major road bridge, just West of Barvinkove, was blown up by a Russian Calibre missile and the bridge collapsed on the Main Railway Line, blocking both road and rail at that point. Both were major transport routes to the Izzum salient a short distance away.

Yet somehow, we are being asked to believe, that in order to attack a very precise target in the middle of a crowded part of a major large town (small city) of the occupied DPR, that the Russians wheeled out of mothballs an old and very inaccurate, Soviet Era, Ballistic Missile in the shape of a Tochka-U!!?? Not even an Iskander?

Its utterly ridiculous and you have to be an total idiot to believe it.?

Only one side still has operational Tochka-U and other SS21 variants in its inventory and that the is the Kiev Regime. They used one against civilians in central Donetsk only a few weeks ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQkttqFt6eQ

Once again, The Kiev Regime see atrocities as their lifeblood, which keeps the flow of money and weapons in their direction. There is no benefit of any kind to Russia whatsoever.

[cromwell]

Sure, his name in Navalny. Do you really want to go there Cromwell?

I'll go where I like thanks very much.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1512138247064985600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1512138247064985600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

[B0ycey]

No Nazis in Russia then?

Sure, his name in Navalny. Do you really want to go there Cromwell?

[cromwell]

What you talking about Good Old? Zelensky is one half of a civil war which is very much the same as Serbia vs Bosnia. And perhaps Zelensky should have implemented the Minsk agreement to its fullest or not enlisted Nazis into his army or expelled them to be more accurate which could have helped. But honestly, in terms of failings, his fault isn't so much the cause of the war but how he is acting currently. He keeps on changing his terms which is delaying talks. He is also using inflammatory language. So in that sense he is currently prolonging the war.  But sure, he isn't the main player of all this given most of it could have been avoided had the West presented dialogue on equal terms and addressed Russian concerns on their security.

As for Russia massive mistake, I wonder if talks are concluded and the result is Ukraine being a neutral state, given that is what Russia were asking for in order t9 withdraw their army from Ukraines border in February, that could be described as a mistake at all.

No Nazis in Russia then?