What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[cromwell]

Nothing in Western media that I can see, but big news on Russian and other International Media is a major evacuation/surrender at Azovstal.
Not entirely clear what exactly is happening. Some are saying its only an evacuation of the wounded, others say its full surrender of all forces, some saying its the Wounded and regular military, excluding Azov.

Footage of Coaches leaving the plant are circulating on the net and everybody agrees that they are going to large town about 40km away in the DNR.
Whatever it is, something substantial is happening but not being reported over here.

It's on news at ten.

[Sampanviking]

Nothing in Western media that I can see, but big news on Russian and other International Media is a major evacuation/surrender at Azovstal.
Not entirely clear what exactly is happening. Some are saying its only an evacuation of the wounded, others say its full surrender of all forces, some saying its the Wounded and regular military, excluding Azov.

Footage of Coaches leaving the plant are circulating on the net and everybody agrees that they are going to large town about 40km away in the DNR.
Whatever it is, something substantial is happening but not being reported over here.

[Scott777]

Same for the BBC, they have also lied:

"There is no audio on the footage but the men seem calm, they even smoke. Then the Ukrainians turn away and the soldiers start to leave.  Suddenly they turn back, crouch then shoot the two men multiple times in their backs."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61425025

[Scott777]

Two unarmed old men shot in the back

https://twitter.com/TheLeadCNN/status/1524525506288398336

An interesting point about this video from CNN, of the guards being supposedly shot by Russians.  The information CNN provide is a lie, and that is proven in the video itself.  CNN claims the guards were talking to the soldiers, and were frisked and therefore unarmed, and minutes later, as they walk away, are shot.  That's a lie, because the shadows of the 2 different clips show that at least an hour passed between the frisking and the shooting, and so it does not establish that they were unarmed.  CNN are liars, and nothing they say about the incident is reliable.

[T00ts]

Babies removed from Incubators
Weapons of Mass Destruction
Moderate Rebels in Syria
Massacres in Bengazi
People that have disappeared that have not
People that have died that are very much alive
Creative and dishonest editing of interviews
Creative and dishonest translations of interviews...
The list is near endless

When all the major media outlets tell exactly the same stories, repeat exactly the same lies, show exactly the same lack of curiosity in validating claims and interest in performing even basic general due diligence, this is not unanimity, this is conformity and outright collusion.

Eventually the big lies are exposed and people like you huff and puff and express their dissatisfaction.
Then another world happens and the very same people come back and do it all again and you swallow it without question just like you did before.

But hey, I;m the one in denial

Links? Thinking about this again we were talking about wealth and Putin's in particular So actually this is irrelevant to the discussion in as much as you have moved the goalposts. 

[Sampanviking]

That's ridiculous you are simply in denial.

Babies removed from Incubators
Weapons of Mass Destruction
Moderate Rebels in Syria
Massacres in Bengazi
People that have disappeared that have not
People that have died that are very much alive
Creative and dishonest editing of interviews
Creative and dishonest translations of interviews...
The list is near endless

When all the major media outlets tell exactly the same stories, repeat exactly the same lies, show exactly the same lack of curiosity in validating claims and interest in performing even basic general due diligence, this is not unanimity, this is conformity and outright collusion.

Eventually the big lies are exposed and people like you huff and puff and express their dissatisfaction.
Then another world happens and the very same people come back and do it all again and you swallow it without question just like you did before.

But hey, I;m the one in denial

[T00ts]

And you know this because?

Now I have no idea what wealth is owned by Putin and neither do you. The difference is that I realise this and you don't. Further, if you only refer to your usual sources, you never will.

I think this comes to the crux of the whole matter. Its not about believing one side or the other, its about not trusting our own media, who should be our genuine first point of reference, but who have squandered their credibility over the previous decades by deliberately and knowingly lying to us, in a cynical and systematic way, over every previous conflict or other major geopolitical event.

That's ridiculous you are simply in denial. 

[Sampanviking]

Well that made me smile. You do realise that Putin is the biggest thief of them all? He has huge wealth while the Russian people struggle. I would suggest that the infantile label belongs elsewhere.

And you know this because?

Now I have no idea what wealth is owned by Putin and neither do you. The difference is that I realise this and you don't. Further, if you only refer to your usual sources, you never will.

I think this comes to the crux of the whole matter. Its not about believing one side or the other, its about not trusting our own media, who should be our genuine first point of reference, but who have squandered their credibility over the previous decades by deliberately and knowingly lying to us, in a cynical and systematic way, over every previous conflict or other major geopolitical event.

[T00ts]

I would say it was the b obvious. As for Russia, the situation there today has a lot to do with the decade in which the puppet Yeltsin allowed "certain gentleman" to fleece the country for a decade,nearly destroying the place. Putin inherited a poison chalice in that regard and had to deal with the situation that he was given. Many of aforementioned gentleman fled abroad, often to London, where they had stashed their ill gotten.

I genuinely hope that with the ending of "niceties" between Russia and West he can wholesale sequester ever last one of the thieving parasites.
If we had a shred of decency we would round them up and ship them back to help.
Do I want Putin to rule the world? No, stupid question to be honest and I doubt very much he does either, just illustrates though the infantile level of discourse that passes for Political debate in this west these days.
I suspect all Putin wants is the thieving shysters in the West of his country's back and frankly I would like to see them off ours as well.
The US system makes an Indian public lavatory took sanitary.

Well that made me smile. You do realise that Putin is the biggest thief of them all? He has huge wealth while the Russian people struggle. I would suggest that the infantile label belongs elsewhere.

[Sampanviking]

Do I assume that you don't like the current world order? Perhaps you feel that Putin would benefit us all if he could only become world leader? Have you noticed that even in Russia the wealth is limited to a few who happen to have Putin's benevolence?

I would say it was the b obvious. As for Russia, the situation there today has a lot to do with the decade in which the puppet Yeltsin allowed "certain gentleman" to fleece the country for a decade,nearly destroying the place. Putin inherited a poison chalice in that regard and had to deal with the situation that he was given. Many of aforementioned gentleman fled abroad, often to London, where they had stashed their ill gotten.

I genuinely hope that with the ending of "niceties" between Russia and West he can wholesale sequester ever last one of the thieving parasites.
If we had a shred of decency we would round them up and ship them back to help.
Do I want Putin to rule the world? No, stupid question to be honest and I doubt very much he does either, just illustrates though the infantile level of discourse that passes for Political debate in this west these days.
I suspect all Putin wants is the thieving shysters in the West of his country's back and frankly I would like to see them off ours as well.
The US system makes an Indian public lavatory took sanitary.

[Baff]

Perhaps because you display the russian federation flag.

Things sometimes annoy people,I did by displaying the Ukraine flag.

We put up the Ukrainian flag at work because Dimitri was visiting.
Good old boy and Ukrainian that he is.

Turns out he's from the east not west.
Brought his Russian wife with him.

Whoopsy. 
I'll get a Z flag.

[Baff]

Certainly I do - and why would so many become refugees if they were so pro Russian?

A very similar number of refuges fled to Russian from 2014 to today.
Why they flee to us now is because the fighting has been taking place in the western friendly parts of Ukraine for the first time.
Their war has come home to them with interest.

Then we have places like Mariupol where one must assume refugees are going both ways. East and West.

[T00ts]

Well maybe its because our unified neo-con elites and the corporate media they own, are rather concerned at what would happen once the general public discover that all the money and military aid that has been donated and all the self inflicted pain of sanctions and self imposed recession, have all been for nothing other to enrich the crooks sitting at the heart of it all, siphoning off the lions share.

Even in the states people are having enough, as Paul Rand's intervention and the Baby Formula scandal are testament.

Meanwhile ever more ludicrous claims of victory are coming out from the Ukrainian side as their army is literally coming apart at the seams.

Do I assume that you don't like the current world order? Perhaps you feel that Putin would benefit us all if he could only become world leader? Have you noticed that even in Russia the wealth is limited to a few who happen to have Putin's benevolence?

[Sampanviking]

Yes ,thats the one . You agreed with the conspiracy of the world media feeding us fake news

Well maybe its because our unified neo-con elites and the corporate media they own, are rather concerned at what would happen once the general public discover that all the money and military aid that has been donated and all the self inflicted pain of sanctions and self imposed recession, have all been for nothing other to enrich the crooks sitting at the heart of it all, siphoning off the lions share.

Even in the states people are having enough, as Paul Rand's intervention and the Baby Formula scandal are testament.

Meanwhile ever more ludicrous claims of victory are coming out from the Ukrainian side as their army is literally coming apart at the seams.

[Streetwalker]

I thanked reply 537, because it made a good point. Is that the one you meant?

Yes ,thats the one . You agreed with the conspiracy of the world media feeding us fake news