What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[Barry]

Or he might choose to Nuke London and the White House as he has threatened. Now that would be awfully inconvenient.

[Borchester]

There is no "Ukrainian" majority in most areas of the East and South of the country, that has always been the heart of the issue. Such majorities only exist in the West and some central areas of the country. The vast and ovewhelming majority in the Russian speaking areas, especially the Donbass itself, have viewed the Ukrainian army as an hostile occupying force and are only to glad to see the back of them.

This war is not ending any time some, why should it?
The West has ratcheted the sanctions escalator to the top and has nowhere else to go and it has failed
The West have pumped billions of dollars worth of "Wonder Weapons" into the Ukraine and it has failed
The best of the Ukrainian army is already destroyed and the rest of it now in the firing line
The US makes no secret of this being a proxy war designed to bleed Russia white.
In this case what is the point of stopping, if the only result is that any rump, no matter how small will have weapons and training pumped into it until they are ready to restart the war again.

Whatever the original territorial intentions, the situation is now so changed that Russia might just as well go ahead and take the fecking lot, as after the Ukrainian Army in the Donbass is finished, there will be nothing left to stop it and they wont even need to do it in a rush.
This means plenty of time to bring all the other Russian majority speaking regions back online (Kherson voting on Independence shortly, others to follow as soon as liberated) a plenty of milita form these areas to control the Ukrop areas without having to commit Russian Fed forces for anything more than the short term.

The figures I have are that between a 35% and 40% of the population of the Donbas are Russian, which means that the majority are Ukrainian.

There is little doubt that the Yanks are using this war as a way to bleed Russia and there is even less that the Russians have fallen for it hook, line and sinker. The Americans are spending dollars and Russia the blood of its young men.

The way things are going, it looks as though Putin has a choice between some sort of face saving peace or an invite to a meeting in one of those rooms with the slopping floors in the Lubyanka

[Sampanviking]

Terrible business, but it looks as though the Russians have taken the Donbas and with a bit of luck will accept that and go home.

I am not sure how much good it will do. If pro Russian separatists have been fighting for an independent Donbas for 8 years, then the majority Ukrainian population will probably start another war to rejoin the Ukraine. Still, no one ever said that Putin the Prat was very bright.

There is no "Ukrainian" majority in most areas of the East and South of the country, that has always been the heart of the issue. Such majorities only exist in the West and some central areas of the country. The vast and ovewhelming majority in the Russian speaking areas, especially the Donbass itself, have viewed the Ukrainian army as an hostile occupying force and are only to glad to see the back of them.

This war is not ending any time some, why should it?
The West has ratcheted the sanctions escalator to the top and has nowhere else to go and it has failed
The West have pumped billions of dollars worth of "Wonder Weapons" into the Ukraine and it has failed
The best of the Ukrainian army is already destroyed and the rest of it now in the firing line
The US makes no secret of this being a proxy war designed to bleed Russia white.
In this case what is the point of stopping, if the only result is that any rump, no matter how small will have weapons and training pumped into it until they are ready to restart the war again.

Whatever the original territorial intentions, the situation is now so changed that Russia might just as well go ahead and take the fecking lot, as after the Ukrainian Army in the Donbass is finished, there will be nothing left to stop it and they wont even need to do it in a rush.
This means plenty of time to bring all the other Russian majority speaking regions back online (Kherson voting on Independence shortly, others to follow as soon as liberated) a plenty of milita form these areas to control the Ukrop areas without having to commit Russian Fed forces for anything more than the short term.

[Borchester]

Just put this out there,no surprise with the Italians or the French
https://ecfr.eu/publication/peace-versus-justice-the-coming-european-split-over-the-war-in-ukraine/

Terrible business, but it looks as though the Russians have taken the Donbas and with a bit of luck will accept that and go home.

I am not sure how much good it will do. If pro Russian separatists have been fighting for an independent Donbas for 8 years, then the majority Ukrainian population will probably start another war to rejoin the Ukraine. Still, no one ever said that Putin the Prat was very bright.

[Barry]

No need to apologise. Only a Keir Starmer Labour government can win the war in Ukraine , Put the "Great" back into GB again , and take our country back into the European Union where we belong.

Hi Sean. Great to have you posting. What is your evidence that Kier Starmer could win the war in Ukraine, bearing in mind we are not officially at war in Ukraine? How would he put the "Great" back into Britain when he lacks ideas of his own and just sits on the fence?
If Starmer declares Labour as a rejoin EU party, that would be great, as we would all know what we are voting for - la-la land.

[Good old]

People are dying because NATO, wants to expand its border, and it's domination of a neighbour, and I can see quiet clearly you support more of that. Russia has an international right to defend its territory.  Any situation that was the case in Ukraine, in 2014 has been made far worse by NATO, yet you appear to support that.

The difference between you and me is that you have taken sides with NATO, which has clearly been expanding.  Russia was not until now.  I have not taken any side.  I wish Russia and NATO could have remained the same.  I have never asked for funding or arming of Russia.  You clearly have no objection to funding and arming and de facto alliance of NATO with Ukraine.  You are the one taking sides, not me.  Have a look in the mirror, and give your head a wobble.

Name one bit of Russia, invaded by NATO. Or a country that belongs to NATO. The only thing NATO dominates is Russia's.  ability to expand its borders at the expense of others. NATO has never invaded Ukraine, How can that be compared to Russia, which has?  it seems to me Russia is not ,and rarely has been into any sort of cooperation outside of selling energy, let alone asking for armoury. I am clearly in favour of helping a European democracy defend its territory from the grasp of a predatory neighbour. If NATO, had ever invaded its members , for them to become members, you might have an argument. But no only Russia, has used that tactic.  And yes I do take sides

[Good old]

No need to apologise. Only a Keir Starmer Labour government can win the war in Ukraine , Put the "Great" back into GB again , and take our country back into the European Union where we belong.

You mis -understand. That answer was no apology on any level. And nothing to do with ,Starmer, Labour. Or rejoining the EU.

[Nick]

People are dying because NATO, wants to expand its border, and it's domination of a neighbour, and I can see quiet clearly you support more of that. Russia has an international right to defend its territory.  Any situation that was the case in Ukraine, in 2014 has been made far worse by NATO, yet you appear to support that.

The difference between you and me is that you have taken sides with NATO, which has clearly been expanding.  Russia was not until now.  I have not taken any side.  I wish Russia and NATO could have remained the same.  I have never asked for funding or arming of Russia.  You clearly have no objection to funding and arming and de facto alliance of NATO with Ukraine.  You are the one taking sides, not me.  Have a look in the mirror, and give your head a wobble.

Absolute BS. Tell me where NATO has set one foot on Russian soil and threatened it?
Again, you don't know the first thing about Russia other than what you read.

[Sean]

I did say, "In a minor way".  Never was Ukraine supplied with anything much more lethal than anti tank weapons ,in relatively small numbers. And never anything capable of enabling Ukraine to threaten Russia, All weapons , even a revolver are lethal.
The fact remains until the Russian invasion , outside of some defensive rocketry, and anti tank weapons . Ukraine had only weapons of Russian, and Ukrainian design, and manufacture.
No Western tanks, No Western aircraft, no long range western rocketry ,No western artillery long or short range.
In fact even after the invasion ,the Ukrainians have had to beg for any of these types of truely lethal weaponry. And to this day  the supply has been very restricted.
That is not going to remain the case ,as recent G7, and NATO pronouncements make clear. So Russia, Putin, has only made the case for the west arming Ukraine, a situation that was far from true , but by their own making now is true.

No need to apologise. Only a Keir Starmer Labour government can win the war in Ukraine , Put the "Great" back into GB again , and take our country back into the European Union where we belong.

[cromwell]

This is the Russian propaganda thread. It's a bit like reading Pravda

Well only if you read Sampans offerings but there are plenty enough that oppose him.

To be fair to him though he's been consistent since he joined, his enthusiasm for all things Chinese and Russian and what their regimes stand for he has been open about,he has a good knowledge I think particularly of China,though that we often disagree I doubt he'll dispute.

[cromwell]

People are dying because NATO, wants to expand its border, and it's domination of a neighbour, and I can see quiet clearly you support more of that. Russia has an international right to defend its territory.  Any situation that was the case in Ukraine, in 2014 has been made far worse by NATO, yet you appear to support that.

The difference between you and me is that you have taken sides with NATO, which has clearly been expanding.  Russia was not until now.  I have not taken any side.  I wish Russia and NATO could have remained the same.  I have never asked for funding or arming of Russia.  You clearly have no objection to funding and arming and de facto alliance of NATO with Ukraine.  You are the one taking sides, not me.  Have a look in the mirror, and give your head a wobble.

Whilst some mistakes have been made in the past dealing with Russia the aggressor here is Putins Russia.
He dreams of recreating an empire long gone and sees himself as Peter the great,I see nothing great about him at all,his visions of empire have led to the expansion of nato,witness Finland and Sweden.

The Russian people are being denied here,the Ukranians too of prosperity and peace,if you think a country where a man appoints himself president for life is nothing more than delusional,Europe wasn't buying his gas and oil as a threat to him,he's used that to threaten and control,or at least try to.

[srb7677]

This is the Russian propaganda thread. It's a bit like reading Pravda

[Scott777]

So Russia, Putin, has only made the case for the west arming Ukraine, a situation that was far from true , but by their own making now is true.

Or NATO has only made the case for Russian aggression in Ukraine.  Again, you only look at one side.

[Scott777]

Well as it's perfectly clear the Ukrainians had relied on  Russian , and home produced gear until quiet recently, your claim could not be valid for 2014, in anything other than a minor way.
But regardless, people are dying because Russia, wants to expand its border, and it's domination of a neighbour, and I can see quiet clearly you support more of that. This fight is not in Russia, it's in Ukraine, Ukraine has an international right to defend its territory, I support that. Any situation that was the case in Ukraine, in 2014 has been made far worse by Russian aggression.yet you appear to support that. It's in the vast majority of cases Ukrainian civilians being killed ,you appear to support that.

People are dying because NATO, wants to expand its border, and it's domination of a neighbour, and I can see quiet clearly you support more of that. Russia has an international right to defend its territory.  Any situation that was the case in Ukraine, in 2014 has been made far worse by NATO, yet you appear to support that.

The difference between you and me is that you have taken sides with NATO, which has clearly been expanding.  Russia was not until now.  I have not taken any side.  I wish Russia and NATO could have remained the same.  I have never asked for funding or arming of Russia.  You clearly have no objection to funding and arming and de facto alliance of NATO with Ukraine.  You are the one taking sides, not me.  Have a look in the mirror, and give your head a wobble.

[Good old]

According to this article , the septics have been supplying Ukraine with ever increasing amounts of lethal arms since 2015.https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/lethal-weapons-to-ukraine-a-primer/

I did say, "In a minor way".  Never was Ukraine supplied with anything much more lethal than anti tank weapons ,in relatively small numbers. And never anything capable of enabling Ukraine to threaten Russia, All weapons , even a revolver are lethal.
The fact remains until the Russian invasion , outside of some defensive rocketry, and anti tank weapons . Ukraine had only weapons of Russian, and Ukrainian design, and manufacture.
No Western tanks, No Western aircraft, no long range western rocketry ,No western artillery long or short range.
In fact even after the invasion ,the Ukrainians have had to beg for any of these types of truely lethal weaponry. And to this day  the supply has been very restricted.
That is not going to remain the case ,as recent G7, and NATO pronouncements make clear. So Russia, Putin, has only made the case for the west arming Ukraine, a situation that was far from true , but by their own making now is true.