What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[Scott777]

If invading Iraq, was wrong, then the Russian  invasion of its neighbour, on mere suspicion is equally wrong, the emphasis being on wrong. 

Unless he really is dim he knew his actions would enlarge NATO, it's Ukraine he wants NATO is one of his many excuses.

Not on mere suspicion.  The alliance of Ukraine with NATO is a fact.

It is not his actions enlarging NATO.  It's the enlargement of NATO that led to his actions.  Again, people seem to struggle with the actual order of events.

[Scott777]

The only reason Putin dislikes it is because he wants unfettered access to expand Russian territory.

Any evidence of Putin's plans?  Or is that another conspiracy theory?  I have provided evidence of NATO operations with Ukraine, and the expansion of NATO through Europe since WWII is historical fact.

[Scott777]

Our resident conspiracy theorist, usually more at home on the covid threads, is also fighting Putin's corner it seems to me.

That's funny, because the only conspiracy theories in this thread are the ones about Putin and his plans and his poisoning people.

[Good old]

Yes of course it is, just like the thing that justified bombing Iraq was Saddam's missiles.  Just remind me, which came first? - NATO expansion, or Russia's invasion?

If invading Iraq, was wrong, then the Russian  invasion of its neighbour, on mere suspicion is equally wrong, the emphasis being on wrong. The tawdry land grab that is murdering thousands is wrong. Your questioning of what came first is irrelevant . Russia, by its own admission is cutting out the Donbas, from the Ukraine. So is it the Donbas , he saves from NATO.? Or is it the subjugation of the whole Ukraine, he really wants, regardless of NATO. ?
Unless he really is dim he knew his actions would enlarge NATO, it's Ukraine he wants NATO is one of his many excuses. 

[T00ts]

No, it didn't form a buffer.  The Ukraine government was pro-western, involved in NATO military operations, being armed and trained by the west.  That's not a buffer, that was clearly part of NATO expansion.

NATO is an organisation that free countries join. If Ukraine as a free country wishes to liaise with NATO surely that is their business. The only reason Putin dislikes it is because he wants unfettered access to expand Russian territory. 

[Scott777]

Until February, the Ukraine formed a buffer between Russia and a lot of places that don't like Russia. 

No, it didn't form a buffer.  The Ukraine government was pro-western, involved in NATO military operations, being armed and trained by the west.  That's not a buffer, that was clearly part of NATO expansion.

[Scott777]

The thing that justifies NATO expansion, is Russia invading Ukraine, murdering its population and wrecking its infrastructure and economy. It needs no other justification . I don't need to supply a link to a glaring fact.

Yes of course it is, just like the thing that justified bombing Iraq was Saddam's missiles.  Just remind me, which came first? - NATO expansion, or Russia's invasion?

[Scott777]

You're not actually serious are you?

Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58635137


The UK is helping Ukraine because they have been illegally invaded by Russia. Do you actually follow the news?

Oh ok, Nick, so a couple of Russian people involved in dodgy stuff is the same as Russia threatening the UK?  🤣  Do you understand the word "suspect" or "suspected"?  But your hypocrisy is exposed.  On one hand, you think the only justification for Russia getting into a conflict is if NATO goes in and threatens them.  But on the other hand, you don't apply that to Russia, who has not come to the UK and threatened us, but yet you want us to help Ukraine attack Russians.  Take a good look at your double standard, and have a think about it.

[Borchester]

"Predatory neighbour" - is NATO not predatory? 

No it isn't.

Until Putin the Prat started his antics NATO was a rather sleepy organisation keen to do not much of anything. It certainly did not like spending money. The idea was that each member country would spend 2% of its GDP on defence, an idea that most member countries politely ignored.

But now Vlad has woken the slumbering giant and in Napoleon's words, has made a total C@@@ of himself. Until February, the Ukraine formed a buffer between Russia and a lot of places that don't like Russia. But now Putin is stuck in what looks to be a long and pointless war in the Donbas. He can't go west because that would risk a major confrontation with NATO and he can't go home because he will show himself up as a loser.

[Scott777]

Maybe you should read the last paragraph of your link .

Yes, I read it all.  And?

[Scott777]

What I will explain is the hilarity of Putin justifying the invasion by calling the Ukraine Nazis, who are the right wingers here,that you cannot see your flawed logic I cannot help you with.

Putin is the equivalent to Hitlers Germany here using the same excuses to justify the invasion,you then say exactly and conflate the whole issue

That's the funniest thing.  So, the people with Nazi symbols are definitely not Nazis, but Putin definitely is.  The way you dodge the point that you decided to bring up, really amounts to trolling.  This is normally the go-to method for the lefties: when unable to make a point, SCREAM NAZI.  🤣

[srb7677]

Well only if you read Sampans offerings but there are plenty enough that oppose him.

I did make that point myself
Sampan is not the only one acting as an apologist for Putin here though. Our resident conspiracy theorist, usually more at home on the covid threads, is also fighting Putin's corner it seems to me.

Mod Edit reason 3.4. Please do not question or ignore Moderator instructions on the open Forum.

[Good old]

Yes, NATO allying with Ukraine was a threat.  What you call "strong allies" is just the apologist's attempt to justify NATO expansion.
Example of military exercises between NATO and Ukraine, (2021):

https://shape.nato.int/news-archive/2021/nato-allies-and-partners-ready-for-exercise-sea-breeze-21

The thing that justifies NATO expansion, is Russia invading Ukraine, murdering its population and wrecking its infrastructure and economy. It needs no other justification . I don't need to supply a link to a glaring fact.

[Nick]

Oh, ok Nick, since that's the game, tell me where Russia has set one foot on British soil and threatened it?  And if you can't, how do you justify pouring money into their government so they can fight Russia?

You're not actually serious are you?

Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58635137


The UK is helping Ukraine because they have been illegally invaded by Russia. Do you actually follow the news?

[Streetwalker]

Yes, NATO allying with Ukraine was a threat.  What you call "strong allies" is just the apologist's attempt to justify NATO expansion.
Example of military exercises between NATO and Ukraine, (2021):

https://shape.nato.int/news-archive/2021/nato-allies-and-partners-ready-for-exercise-sea-breeze-21

Maybe you should read the last paragraph of your link .