Devolved governments opt out of queens jubilee book

[Thomas]

Nor very likely, which is why Ms Sturgeon has put Indy2 off until 2023. And why come 2023 she will cry Jinks! and say that she really, really wants the referendum, but that the bastard English won't let her. And then she will roll it back for another year or two.

Well the carrot dangling is being noted more and more borkie , just like labour used to dangle the carrot of home rule , and it only goes on so long. Your problem is hoping a british party takes up the slack , mine is replacing the snp with another indy party.

If only you could stop us jocks voting eh? Didint you try that in northern ireland , went well there didnt it?

I suspect that Wee Krankie has been testing the water and discovered that there are a lot more Tommy's blinkered Unionists than she realised and that Scotland has more chance of winning the Six Nations than voting for independence

See borkie i read a lot of this wishfull english thinking on forums like these. Its normally why  , when i point out the facts and provide evidence  ,english john threatens to mow me down on his mobility scooter for talking sense and telling truth.

Theres even more pro europeans , than you blinkered unionists and us scot nats who are extremely pissed off with johnsons cost of living crises and the debacle of brexit.

Scotland might no have won the six nations , but mind when they said the mighty england was going to hump us at murrayfield , and then reality dawned on english john from that fantasy bubble he inhabits.

Scotland 20-17 England

Date: Saturday 5th February 2022
Venue: BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zealand)
Attendance: 67,144


i always say borkie , while the truly great sporting nations , the germans , french spanish or south american , judegtheir sporting prowess by how many winners medal and trophies they have , the englishman judges his against the mighty scotland.

Im flattered you think so highly of us  , bearing in mind in rugby , its normally a game for posh edinburgh schoolboys or the southern scottish tottie pickers , and isnt really that popular compared to real mans sport , fitba.

There you go .

[Borchester]

 
My point was which I think you grasped, that independence with Sturgeon and SNP in power would be a bit of a joke and hardly Utopia.

Nor very likely, which is why Ms Sturgeon has put Indy2 off until 2023. And why come 2023 she will cry Jinks! and say that she really, really wants the referendum, but that the bastard English won't let her. And then she will roll it back for another year or two.

I suspect that Wee Krankie has been testing the water and discovered that there are a lot more Tommy's blinkered Unionists than she realised and that Scotland has more chance of winning the Six Nations than voting for independence

[Thomas]

Oh I'm well aware where you stand it has been made plain many times although for a while there I thought you had an epiphany on the EU mafia organisation.

Not with you. I voted remain for the millionth time , and would do again if need be. I understand the flaws of the EU , thought it disgracefull how anti demcorats both in your parliament and out acted  , but i dont support you  or yours in the slightest.

Presumably you've been nobbled

I call a spade a spade , and clearly brexit is cac to date.

You have a problem in that I am staunchly English

Then you are mistaken , thats not a problem that s a boon . Its the british i have a problem with , especially the likes of gordon brown and his unionist cronies. Im the biggest supporter of england and english nationalism on this forum.

although I claim 50% Spanish with drips of Moorish, Viking and French,

The majority of humanity has mixed ancestry.

and I like English newspapers.

I didnt ask f you like them toots , i implied you shouldnt believe the guff you read in them about a one party scottish independent state.

My point was which I think you grasped, that independence with Sturgeon and SNP in power would be a bit of a joke and hardly Utopia.

...and my point which i dont think you did grasp is that independence isnt about sturgeon and the snp , they wouldnt be in power outside shrot term , and independence is about having the chance to elect governments of your own choosing, not have someone elses foist upon you.

[Thomas]

Yes now but pre WW1 it would've worked.

It woudnt. From many reasons i have mentioned , and more.

You only need to look on this thread to see what im talking about. Toots and streetwalker sum up the english attitude towards federalism , which is..... it doesnt compute.

Neither can quite grasp the arrognace or question the validitiy of an english tory government neither scotland or wales elected sending an anglo centric book to scottish and welsh schoolchildren , overstepping the marks of decency and the boundaries of the flawed "devolution " we have at present.

....and you talk of full blown federalism?

When has england ever embraced federalism in its entirety of its history? Its been ran largely from a centralised monarchial figure , till parliament took the monarchs power , then that parliament ran on similar overtly centralised lines.

Any of its colonies that resisted that overt centralisation were crushed under arms .

Lamenting what could have or should have been done centuries past wont save your union now.

[cromwell]

with respect cromwell , even the most blinkered unionist scot realises now the federalism lie is nothing more than a short term sticking plaster to try and cobble this union together for a few more years before it collapses. No one takes it seriously mate , and simply laugh when the like s of gordon brown bring it up.

Outisde of the need to partition england itself to get it to work , you f**ked yourself right up voting for brexit. Every scot man woman and child can see the english dont do power sharing and team work , they have to be in charge ,or they want out as the 40 year history of your participation in the eec/eu shows.

How do you think that looks to scots , who 62 % voted to stay in the eu when an englishman starts talking of federalisation after just sticking two fingers up to 450 million europeans?

England doesnt know anything other than overt centralisation . Its how your own country has been governed since the aftermath of the norman conquest in 1066 , when wullie centred his administation and governance away from winchester to london , and became one of the most centralised countires in the entire  european continent.

Did i ever mention the story of the aftermath of world war two when the allies were wondering what to do about west germany? The story goes france and the yanks wanted to federalise west germany  , and who devoutly opposed it? Yep your government , but the yanks got their way.

Its a fantasy that never has happened in centuries , and never will happen in the last remaining years of this union. For anyone who feels the need to be part of a federation  ,the question is why federate with little england , when we can federate with the much larger EU ?

Federation is the last desperate throw of the dice before the end. All empire come and go , and the british one is no different.

Yes now but pre WW1 it would've worked.

[Thomas]

No federations can and do work,the empire was in decline pre WW1 and they either couldn't or wouldn't accept that.

Its like looney yank land when I told the barmy racist (whose name now escapes) on ppf a decade ago that his country was in decline and would be replaced by China he threw a strop and ranted on about Brits having bad teeth

with respect cromwell , even the most blinkered unionist scot realises now the federalism lie is nothing more than a short term sticking plaster to try and cobble this union together for a few more years before it collapses. No one takes it seriously mate , and simply laugh when the like s of gordon brown bring it up.

Outisde of the need to partition england itself to get it to work , you fucked yourself right up voting for brexit. Every scot man woman and child can see the english dont do power sharing and team work , they have to be in charge ,or they want out as the 40 year history of your participation in the eec/eu shows.

How do you think that looks to scots , who 62 % voted to stay in the eu when an englishman starts talking of federalisation after just sticking two fingers up to 450 million europeans?

England doesnt know anything other than overt centralisation . Its how your own country has been governed since the aftermath of the norman conquest in 1066 , when wullie centred his administation and governance away from winchester to london , and became one of the most centralised countires in the entire  european continent.

Did i ever mention the story of the aftermath of world war two when the allies were wondering what to do about west germany? The story goes france and the yanks wanted to federalise west germany  , and who devoutly opposed it? Yep your government , but the yanks got their way.

Its a fantasy that never has happened in centuries , and never will happen in the last remaining years of this union. For anyone who feels the need to be part of a federation  ,the question is why federate with little england , when we can federate with the much larger EU ?

Federation is the last desperate throw of the dice before the end. All empire come and go , and the british one is no different.

[T00ts]

Dont understand your point? England is the one party state ,the almost always votes tory. In an indy scotland the snp would split , and scotland would be like any other normal european democracy.

Im voting for indy , not the snp , who are merely a vessell to get there . I wouldnt vote snp if they didnt split in an indy scotland and have said this many a time on here for years.

please stop reading guff in english newspapers toots. As long as there isnt any british parties ,then my vote is up for sale to the highest bidder in an indy scotland.

Oh I'm well aware where you stand it has been made plain many times although for a while there I thought you had an epiphany on the EU mafia organisation. Presumably you've been nobbled. You have a problem in that I am staunchly English although I claim 50% Spanish with drips of Moorish, Viking and French, and I like English newspapers. I am also staunchly Conservative, though raised in a strong Labour household. So you see I am where I am from choice not indoctrination. I see the faults of course but they are pretty universal in politics no matter which country I look at. 
My point was which I think you grasped, that independence with Sturgeon and SNP in power would be a bit of a joke and hardly Utopia.

[cromwell]

Whatever his faults , and they were many  , he was cornered into something that had landed on john majors lap. It was the demands of the scottish people  , not something that was done out of spite by blair.
Federation is a fantasy that would never in a million years have happened. Your own countries politicians , political elite and experts repeatedly point out for the uk to be federated , england would have to be partitioned into bits due to the popuation imbalance that has grwnn since the 19 th century. ( in 1801 , england had 7 million and scotland ireland wales 7 million )

No one takes it seriously now , outside of gordon browns rantings , as its been looked at time and again and dismissed .
Westminster whole history is built on two staples of diet , short termism and can kicking.

...and here we are.....

No federations can and do work,the empire was in decline pre WW1 and they either couldn't or wouldn't accept that.

Its like looney yank land when I told the barmy racist (whose name now escapes) on ppf a decade ago that his country was in decline and would be replaced by China he threw a strop and ranted on about Brits having bad teeth 

[Thomas]

Independence with the SNP?  Gosh! Hardly Utopia!

ahem , as opposed to the biggest fall in living standards under tory run uk utopia , with the worst state pension in the entire civilised world.

[Thomas]

Independence with the SNP?  Gosh! Hardly Utopia!

Dont understand your point? England is the one party state ,the almost always votes tory. In an indy scotland the snp would split , and scotland would be like any other normal european democracy.

Im voting for indy , not the snp , who are merely a vessell to get there . I wouldnt vote snp if they didnt split in an indy scotland and have said this many a time on here for years.

please stop reading guff in english newspapers toots. As long as there isnt any british parties ,then my vote is up for sale to the highest bidder in an indy scotland.

[T00ts]

Sorry its a football thing toots. Thats what the english fans say ...engerlund....no?
It comes back to you voting for brexit. Not only voting for brexit , the eu being a key plank in the remain side in 2014 , but your inability to get scots to vote brexit , where you got a tiny minority in 2016.

That and of course many other issues of course.
Of course its rubbish . Why bother with the crumbs of devolution when you can have independence?

Independence with the SNP?  Gosh! Hardly Utopia! 

[Thomas]

Thomas you are blinkered. By the way if you persist in calling it Engerland as some sort of slight perhaps I can call it Scotchland or maybe kiltland or skirtland  to be even.

Sorry its a football thing toots. Thats what the english fans say ...engerlund....no?

It still comes back to you not having a majority for independence.

It comes back to you voting for brexit. Not only voting for brexit , the eu being a key plank in the remain side in 2014 , but your inability to get scots to vote brexit , where you got a tiny minority in 2016.

That and of course many other issues of course.

You yourself have admitted that it is rubbish - it certainly comes up with some odd ideas.

Of course its rubbish . Why bother with the crumbs of devolution when you can have independence?

[Thomas]

Of that there's much I don't disagree with,many mistakes over the years were made regarding Scot and Welsh sensibilities Irish too and had progress been made earlier Bliars efforts wouldn't have been required he did what he did with little understanding or care imo other than the short term.

Whatever his faults , and they were many  , he was cornered into something that had landed on john majors lap. It was the demands of the scottish people  , not something that was done out of spite by blair.

I know you'll disagree but it should've been looked at years ago....pre WW1 imo and a federation and perhaps Ireland wouldn't have become the running sore it became.

Federation is a fantasy that would never in a million years have happened. Your own countries politicians , political elite and experts repeatedly point out for the uk to be federated , england would have to be partitioned into bits due to the popuation imbalance that has grwnn since the 19 th century. ( in 1801 , england had 7 million and scotland ireland wales 7 million )

No one takes it seriously now , outside of gordon browns rantings , as its been looked at time and again and dismissed .

It's like so much else and I do mention it occasionally but it's all short termism and the mistakes that follow.

Westminster whole history is built on two staples of diet , short termism and can kicking.

...and here we are.....

[T00ts]

Well we can talk abouit that if you like , but it doesnt expalin the tories involvement in this book outside engerlund.
except over the jubilee book  ,and london fuming about being told to mind their own business.Actually toots krankie is a monarchist who has the queens ear as a privy councillor. She doesnt need to prove her pwoer , she already has control over scotland schools , and scottish education has always been seperate from englands . Back in the day , it was seperate under the sos for jockland.Get away with what? SDhe has one job to perform , and if she wont  , then she will be removed and another take her place till independence happens.

Whats that old saying about only having to win once and unionists having to win each and evey time?

The uk is coming apart at the seams , and its the people not politicians driving change ,even in your country.
She is anti british , and im anti british too , so are 62 nations around the world that left the british empire. Including ireland.

Its not scottish nationalism that breaking the uk , its english nationalism , but you are too blind to see it.

Thomas you are blinkered. By the way if you persist in calling it Engerland as some sort of slight perhaps I can call it Scotchland or maybe kiltland or skirtland  to be even.

It still comes back to you not having a majority for independence. Wriggle as much as you like, blame everything but yourselves, that is the fact. Don't start again about Brexit promises we've heard it all before. As far as your devolved government is concerned it is simply a plaster to cover a wound. You yourself have admitted that it is rubbish - it certainly comes up with some odd ideas.

[cromwell]

sorry cromwell , as much as you and i agree with each other on blair , if you think this all started with labours devolution , you know nothing of your own country.

Did you miss the 1979 scottish devolution referendum nearly twenty years before blair , and al lthe other events prior to that before my time?

There hasnt been a decade in uk history which only goes back 300 years , that here hasnt been incidents reagrding scottish irish and welsh indepdnence.

Blair was forced into devolution because the scottish demcrats had appealed to the council of europe and the EU about the uk treatment of their minorities and the celtic nations.

If you read any of his biographies , i think it was alsitair campbell who famously wrote blair said devoltuion was a damn nuisance. Remeber labour since theri inception had promised , but backtracked every election to give scotland home rule , which was independence within the old commonwealth , sort of what they offered the irish.

Blair was dealing with something that went back centuries , and certainly as a political movement  , at least since pre world war two.

Of that there's much I don't disagree with,many mistakes over the years were made regarding Scot and Welsh sensibilities Irish too and had progress been made earlier Bliars efforts wouldn't have been required he did what he did with little understanding or care imo other than the short term.

I know you'll disagree but it should've been looked at years ago....pre WW1 imo and a federation and perhaps Ireland wouldn't have become the running sore it became.

It's like so much else and I do mention it occasionally but it's all short termism and the mistakes that follow.