Is anything true?

[cromwell]

I've found myself over the years saying the same things in these threads over and again. Then when these sad realities are confirmed (sometimes graphically) in yet another 24hr news binge, we go through the same liberal angst and bitter recriminations about "truth", who did what and who is to blame. It's the same fecking good guys bad guys narrative, over and over and over again. We simply cannot expect to grasp what someone's "truth" is from a living room or a wine bar a thousand miles away. But that never stops the outrage. It'd utterly depressing and that's why I pulled out of that discussion.

The fact is, most people are simply not equipped to deal with the "truth", Toots. That's why reassuringly nice presenters and soothing moral platitudes make safer viewing. Then we can all be safe in our civilised little world's knowing we personally would never sink to such depths.

Happens every day here there everywhere even if in only a small (though not minor instance) like I've said before the veneer of civilisation is quite thin.

Though you do have your thing about liberals,don't you think there is just as much outrage outside what are called the western liberal democracies?

[DeppityDawg]

I find most of the replies so far terribly cynical. We tell our children to be honest and I at least expect people to be honest with me just as I make every effort to be honest with others. What kind of future is it where it appears we can trust nothing and no-one?

Surely it cannot be right to simply accept this situation?
Most people 

I've found myself over the years saying the same things in these threads over and again. Then when these sad realities are confirmed (sometimes graphically) in yet another 24hr news binge, we go through the same liberal angst and bitter recriminations about "truth", who did what and who is to blame. It's the same fecking good guys bad guys narrative, over and over and over again. We simply cannot expect to grasp what someone's "truth" is from a living room or a wine bar a thousand miles away. But that never stops the outrage. It'd utterly depressing and that's why I pulled out of that discussion.

The fact is, most people are simply not equipped to deal with the "truth", Toots. That's why reassuringly nice presenters and soothing moral platitudes make safer viewing. Then we can all be safe in our civilised little world's knowing we personally would never sink to such depths. 

[Sheepy]

Easily fixed, tell the Westminster party and the civil service to stop making it up as they go along and creating lies on top of lies to cover for themselves. 

[T00ts]

I started a thread, "We live in a post truth society".
Now, just think about this a bit, when anyone posts on the forum, they have an agenda, either to lean one way or another, and to reinforce that, don't we tend to exaggerate the argument in our favour, whilst diminishing, or ignoring our opponents?
I'm not saying that is wrong, but we skew the truth for our own ends.

Maybe we need to admit that we contribute to the post truth society. We filter all we hear, as best we can, but deciding what is truth or an axiom is nigh on impossible.

Ok I see your point and I agree that to make a point we all put it as strongly as possible to contribute to any debate, but this is surely a little different. Here we have people who freely point out that in their opinion nothing is true. That truth is somewhere in the middle. Who decides exactly where that truth lies? This could be hell in a handcart if the general consensus is that no viewpoint is the actual truth. It would be like trying to debate shaving foam!

[T00ts]

I started a thread, "We live in a post truth society".
Now, just think about this a bit, when anyone posts on the forum, they have an agenda, either to lean one way or another, and to reinforce that, don't we tend to exaggerate the argument in our favour, whilst diminishing, or ignoring our opponents?
I'm not saying that is wrong, but we skew the truth for our own ends.

Maybe we need to admit that we contribute to the post truth society. We filter all we hear, as best we can, but deciding what is truth or an axiom is nigh on impossible.

I find that quite scary. I need to think about that.

[Barry]

Let's give this another go. Why has the truth of so many situations become a game of hide and seek? Since when did it become necessary to put falsehoods out in the public domain to the point that actually no-one, it seems to me, can be absolutely sure of what the truth of any given situation really is?

Surely if this is now the status quo none of us will be able to trust anyone or anything? I have given this some thought overnight and feel very strongly that it isn't the way to go. Some say that the truth is somewhere in the middle, while already suggesting that it's still all lies whether to the right left or in the middle. It seems to me that our own research simply puts us on a path of complex investigation into even more potential lies.

I cannot believe the theory that no-one actually tells the truth. In that lies insanity for all of us.

I started a thread, "We live in a post truth society".
Now, just think about this a bit, when anyone posts on the forum, they have an agenda, either to lean one way or another, and to reinforce that, don't we tend to exaggerate the argument in our favour, whilst diminishing, or ignoring our opponents?
I'm not saying that is wrong, but we skew the truth for our own ends.

Maybe we need to admit that we contribute to the post truth society. We filter all we hear, as best we can, but deciding what is truth or an axiom is nigh on impossible.

[T00ts]

Probably not, but it matter?

As John said, everyone lies about money and sex and the world hasn't stopped turning

Not everyone!    

[Borchester]

Let's give this another go. Why has the truth of so many situations become a game of hide and seek? Since when did it become necessary to put falsehoods out in the public domain to the point that actually no-one, it seems to me, can be absolutely sure of what the truth of any given situation really is?

Probably not, but it matter?

As John said, everyone lies about money and sex and the world hasn't stopped turning

[T00ts]

There are three primary falsehoods in life

"Of course I'll love you forever"
"The cheques in the post" and

No. The third is too indecent to quote to a lady. Actually I would hesitate to repeat it to my daughter's best friend's women's rugby team who are about as foul mouthed as the marines on a bad day.

But I really do believe most of the problem you ask about derives directly from society seeing no problem in propagating those lies with reckless abandon.

I can't help but feel that if the majority loses confidence in what we understand about the world we live in then anarchy and chaos will ensue.

[johnofgwent]

Let's give this another go. Why has the truth of so many situations become a game of hide and seek? Since when did it become necessary to put falsehoods out in the public domain to the point that actually no-one, it seems to me, can be absolutely sure of what the truth of any given situation really is?

Surely if this is now the status quo none of us will be able to trust anyone or anything? I have given this some thought overnight and feel very strongly that it isn't the way to go. Some say that the truth is somewhere in the middle, while already suggesting that it's still all lies whether to the right left or in the middle. It seems to me that our own research simply puts us on a path of complex investigation into even more potential lies.

I cannot believe the theory that no-one actually tells the truth. In that lies insanity for all of us.

There are three primary falsehoods in life

"Of course I'll love you forever"
"The cheques in the post" and

No. The third is too indecent to quote to a lady. Actually I would hesitate to repeat it to my daughter's best friend's women's rugby team who are about as foul mouthed as the marines on a bad day.

But I really do believe most of the problem you ask about derives directly from society seeing no problem in propagating those lies with reckless abandon.

[T00ts]

Let's give this another go. Why has the truth of so many situations become a game of hide and seek? Since when did it become necessary to put falsehoods out in the public domain to the point that actually no-one, it seems to me, can be absolutely sure of what the truth of any given situation really is?

Surely if this is now the status quo none of us will be able to trust anyone or anything? I have given this some thought overnight and feel very strongly that it isn't the way to go. Some say that the truth is somewhere in the middle, while already suggesting that it's still all lies whether to the right left or in the middle. It seems to me that our own research simply puts us on a path of complex investigation into even more potential lies. 

I cannot believe the theory that no-one actually tells the truth. In that lies insanity for all of us.

[Borchester]

"The past was alterable.The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia."

My advice to you T00ts is do your own research. If you must read the media, read both sides. The truth is always found somewhere in the middle.

Well, not always. Long before he wrote 1984, Orwell noted in Homage to Catolonia, that the it was not so much that the truth was being manipulated, as that as often as not in did not exist.

I believe that Russia has invaded the Ukraine and that Putin should turn his tanks round and send them home. Other than that I don't believe a word that either side has to say.

[T00ts]

LOL oh dear what a shame, you notice something is wrong we back you up and tell you it isn't a figment of your imagination and then you tell us we are cynics for backing you up.

Really? I didn't understand it that way at all. I understood that there was general acceptance of the situation. Apologies all round.

[B0ycey]

I find most of the replies so far terribly cynical. We tell our children to be honest and I at least expect people to be honest with me just as I make every effort to be honest with others. What kind of future is it where it appears we can trust nothing and no-one?

Surely it cannot be right to simply accept this situation?

"The past was alterable.The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia."

My advice to you T00ts is do your own research. If you must read the media, read both sides. The truth is always found somewhere in the middle. That isn't being cynical. It is a realisation that the media has never been impartial. It promotes a narrative. That isn't to say it is lying to you but only that it gives you the information it wants you to know and disregards the rest.

[Sheepy]

LOL oh dear what a shame, you notice something is wrong we back you up and tell you it isn't a figment of your imagination and then you tell us we are cynics for backing you up.