The bible and women

[Barry]

Seems strange that someone, who champions modern processes and thinking, should be so wedded to the ideas you found in a book that were last revised and set down more than 400 years ago...

The earth is old, but you still have faith in it when you walk on it, don't you?

[Baron von Lotsov]

Nothing to do with either the Bible or Women...

I know, but then it was an attempt to reply to your post below, which had not a lot to do with it.

Seems strange that someone, who champions modern processes and thinking, should be so wedded to the ideas you found in a book that were last revised and set down more than 400 years ago...

What we are talking about is the man and woman as represented by their genetics, not the environment. I know the PC way is to ignore science and common sense, but there are only two genders, man and woman or boy and girl. The mind of the girl is different to that of the boy. The PC contend it is purely environmental, as per the girl is told to dress in girl's clothes etc and play with dolls. The trouble is this most basic assumption is bullshit. it is an insult to expect someone to believe such bullshit and yet we get it every day on the BBC. The bible is correct on this matter. The girl's job is to grow up and have children and to look after those children, and not to have their children looked after by social workers with a warped sense of reality to screw their minds up with their ideology which defies observation.

[patman post]

The Chinese keep their traditions as well you know.



The odd ones out are the Marxist interlectuals who do not produce.

Nothing to do with either the Bible or Women...

[Baron von Lotsov]

Seems strange that someone, who champions modern processes and thinking, should be so wedded to the ideas you found in a book that were last revised and set down more than 400 years ago...

The Chinese keep their traditions as well you know.



The odd ones out are the Marxist interlectuals who do not produce.

[patman post]

Seems strange that someone, who champions modern processes and thinking, should be so wedded to the ideas you found in a book that were last revised and set down more than 400 years ago...

[patman post]

.........



The gist I get from that thing I read in the bible seems to make perfect sense to me. You know you have a workman and a workman's mate, well it's a bit like that. The man has the plan and works with the woman. The woman is the assistant of the man and gets pleasure out of that role. The man also feels he is being helped and that means both are close to one another. ............

Seems strange that someone, who champions modern processes and thinking, should be so wedded to the ideas you found in a book that were last revised and set down more than 400 years ago...

[Baron von Lotsov]

Their husbands did everything and bless them they had become airheads. They really suffered.

Hmm, so they demand their husband is at their beck and call to look after them, become lazy, got bored, then blamed the husband.



The gist I get from that thing I read in the bible seems to make perfect sense to me. You know you have a workman and a workman's mate, well it's a bit like that. The man has the plan and works with the woman. The woman is the assistant of the man and gets pleasure out of that role. The man also feels he is being helped and that means both are close to one another.



 What feminism does is to make the woman disobedient. It's like the workman saying to his mate as he is up the ladder on  the job that could he pass something up, and the mate says f-off get it your damn self. You know, like deliberately awkward and solely from a feminist ideological motive to be like that. Divorce will often follow soon after. Few women today seem to understand this. They might do all sorts of things to attract a man, but three words will work best of all. They are, "can I help".

[patman post]

^^^

Sorry to hear your husband's plumbing isn't up to snuff, but pleased your DIY has taken the edge off the situation...

[T00ts]

I do any of the heavy stuff, plus most of the jobs that need doing around the house. Mrs Dawg will tackle jobs too, although she isn't any good with plumbing or electrics. Painting, minor DIY, she will do herself, she does the garden (and it looks great), and she'll do 80% of the housework, because like I say, she works part time now. I do most of the cooking at weekends because I find it relaxing. We don't have a set "rota" as such, and if she were ill in bed, I'd do the ironing or the washing or whatever. She can do most jobs she turns her hand to if she wants to, except those requiring a lot of strength. For instance she couldn't move the washing machine by herself when it needed moving after our recent  kitchen flood. She is neither old fashioned, nor is she a "feminist", and she likes being the "lady" a lot of the time. She does have a wicked hook (and I've seen it when she punched a bloke who touched her arse many years ago)



As for hidden skills, not really. They are just skills and habits picked up. Many ex military like your husband are like that. Learned behaviour, sense of duty (or of doing something the "right" way), self discipline etc. They do things because they were conditioned to do them, not necessarily because they want to, or to please anyone. I get up at 05.30 everyday. Not necessarily because I want to, but because I always have. I take Mrs Dawg a cup of tea. She has got used to it. But I don't get up to make her a cup of tea, I get up because my body tells me to. I have routines for personal hygiene, fitness, for sleep, for dozens of other things. Ex Military wont say "its six o clock", or "G for Green", they'll say "its 18.00" or use the correct phonetics. Its habit, nothing more. There wasn't a huge amount of ironing to do in the Army, but like everything else you learned to do it yourself, like sewing or like cleaning. It becomes second nature. Its part of the culture of self reliance and self discipline. Fix your own ills, as its put. Because there will be times when all you have is yourself and what is at hand. These are the "hidden skills" that live with you long after you leave.



Men are often creatures of habit. We (or many of us at least) function best when we have clear structures, routines and goals, and, not too light a point, discipline, the self learned/imposed type. That doesn't mean we can't function without them, but that we function best on these levels, especially suited to team behaviours like the Armed Forces, or Sports teams for example. Its fashionable to slate the Men these days, to mock and belittle them, and level accusations at all men for the actions of a few, as if all women are faultless. Tired of it to be honest. I don't have much time for Lotsov or his posts, but his thread here does carry a tiny grain of relevance. If, after 100 years of feminism, women think that progress is now won by constantly attacking, baiting and complaining about men, yes they might eventually get to do and be everything themselves. Good luck with that. But they'll eventually find themselves doing it on their own. Who wants a relationship with someone who cant ever do any wrong? Because men will come around to the realisation that many women expect to be treated as equals, and yet then demand exceptional treatment at the same time.



Me? I won't give a flying feck, because I'll either be down the pub or in my box.

Believe it or not I am not a hard line feminist by any stretch. My husband treated me very much as the lady but when he realised that my plumbing joints didn't leak when no matter how hard he tried his always did he offered to spend time on the golf course to get out of my way, making sure he was around to do the strong man stuff. I was putting in a new bathroom at the time and he did the excellent tiling job.



What upsets me is the assumption that women are helpless. I have known several women who once widowed had no clue how to pay bills, repair anything, drive or even how to function. Their husbands did everything and bless them they had become airheads. They really suffered. My very enlightened father nurtured interest in me into all sorts of things, nothing was off limits just because I was a girl. Even worse is the assumption that we are lesser mortals.  Men cannot be without us but equally we can't be without men.

I do realise that amongst many women I am an exception with a career firmly in the arts, but I could build a stage set with the best of them and would stun the army of students' Dad's who would turn up to help by producing my own power tools for them to borrow. It's been a brilliant life, diy was my relaxation. I'd be as happy building a wall or concreting as doing a ballet class.

The saddest thing is those girls who imagine that being equal to men is behaving as the worst do. The true feminist for me is one who is the real helpmeet to a man not his passenger, but for real happiness it must work both ways. Many of us manage it, thank God.

[DeppityDawg]

I wasn't wound up! I have to admit I was working something like 55 hours a week at the time and bless him my husband (a real man un-threatened by a talented strong woman  :roll: )  helped as much as he could. I thought you would have the skills hidden somewhere under a bushel. There were two jobs I took over after he passed, with tears rolling down my cheeks, the ironing (he left owing me brownie points) and mowing the lawn.

I do any of the heavy stuff, plus most of the jobs that need doing around the house. Mrs Dawg will tackle jobs too, although she isn't any good with plumbing or electrics. Painting, minor DIY, she will do herself, she does the garden (and it looks great), and she'll do 80% of the housework, because like I say, she works part time now. I do most of the cooking at weekends because I find it relaxing. We don't have a set "rota" as such, and if she were ill in bed, I'd do the ironing or the washing or whatever. She can do most jobs she turns her hand to if she wants to, except those requiring a lot of strength. For instance she couldn't move the washing machine by herself when it needed moving after our recent  kitchen flood. She is neither old fashioned, nor is she a "feminist", and she likes being the "lady" a lot of the time. She does have a wicked hook (and I've seen it when she punched a bloke who touched her arse many years ago)



As for hidden skills, not really. They are just skills and habits picked up. Many ex military like your husband are like that. Learned behaviour, sense of duty (or of doing something the "right" way), self discipline etc. They do things because they were conditioned to do them, not necessarily because they want to, or to please anyone. I get up at 05.30 everyday. Not necessarily because I want to, but because I always have. I take Mrs Dawg a cup of tea. She has got used to it. But I don't get up to make her a cup of tea, I get up because my body tells me to. I have routines for personal hygiene, fitness, for sleep, for dozens of other things. Ex Military wont say "its six o clock", or "G for Green", they'll say "its 18.00" or use the correct phonetics. Its habit, nothing more. There wasn't a huge amount of ironing to do in the Army, but like everything else you learned to do it yourself, like sewing or like cleaning. It becomes second nature. Its part of the culture of self reliance and self discipline. Fix your own ills, as its put. Because there will be times when all you have is yourself and what is at hand. These are the "hidden skills" that live with you long after you leave.



Men are often creatures of habit. We (or many of us at least) function best when we have clear structures, routines and goals, and, not too light a point, discipline, the self learned/imposed type. That doesn't mean we can't function without them, but that we function best on these levels, especially suited to team behaviours like the Armed Forces, or Sports teams for example. Its fashionable to slate the Men these days, to mock and belittle them, and level accusations at all men for the actions of a few, as if all women are faultless. Tired of it to be honest. I don't have much time for Lotsov or his posts, but his thread here does carry a tiny grain of relevance. If, after 100 years of feminism, women think that progress is now won by constantly attacking, baiting and complaining about men, yes they might eventually get to do and be everything themselves. Good luck with that. But they'll eventually find themselves doing it on their own. Who wants a relationship with someone who cant ever do any wrong? Because men will come around to the realisation that many women expect to be treated as equals, and yet then demand exceptional treatment at the same time.



Me? I won't give a flying feck, because I'll either be down the pub or in my box.

[johnofgwent]

Does it say anything about them getting the fecking shirts ironed?

I will look.



EDIT Ecclesiastes ('a time to live  a time to die etc') says let your clothes always be white. But it also says enjoy your days with your beloved wife for what little time god has granted you...



And I feel whingeing about having your laundry done may imperil that - either through your divorce, or your early end head down in a wash tub ...

[johnofgwent]

We'll have new bodies, won't we?

Anything is possible. I'd rather have a new one, this one is starting to fail!

Well, that's what the Abbott of Caldey Island said when I went there on retreat back in '79.



I may not believe a lot of it now, but I do remember it. Whether this was Papal doctrine or holy writ, and if so which bit of holy writ, pre or post the Nicea convention it came from, is a matter for jihad ...

[Baron von Lotsov]

You can try and twist my words to suit your own misogynistic agenda as much as you like it makes absolutely no difference to me. On the other hand your cherry picking to support your apparently rather warped view of women is hard to believe. If you are going to quote the Bible I suggest you read it properly.

I read the bit properly I mentioned, but Barry did not believe me.



I do partially accept you point about the times. Some bits are clearly dated in that we are no longer a rural economy and pay in two cows and a sheep etc, but this is different. This is a comment about the role of women and what they were created for, and I can't see how that changes with time.



None of this feminist stuff is orthodox Christianity. It is anti-Christian. It was developed in the humanities departments of major American universities back in the 60s, like Berkeley was one of them apparently. I think you lack the knowledge of the history of the movement. This is why you think I'm a woman hater. No I'm not. I would like to see women get off their high horses and make peace with men, not try and fight them and spread nasty propaganda.



Most women are OK, but the trouble is there is a movement of political radicals and they have free reign of the BBC airwaves. I just switch the radio on for a few seconds and again it is saying stuff like in an American accent, yes I did a film about sexual harassment which was coincidently like another one recently on the same theme. See -  they are propagandists, and we men are not that dumb and know what the game is. So I'm not pissed off with you, I am pissed off with the propaganda, although it must be said the rudeness can be somewhat off-putting, but I turn the other cheek.

[T00ts]

You're easier to wind up than BYTs hoover.



Yes, I can Iron and I can Hoover. And I can sew and most other things around the house. Luckily, Mrs Dawg still prefers to do most of it herself (mainly because I work 45-50 hours a week and she works 16 now). But also because I usually fail to reach her high standards........ *whistles innocently*

I wasn't wound up! I have to admit I was working something like 55 hours a week at the time and bless him my husband (a real man un-threatened by a talented strong woman  :roll: )  helped as much as he could. I thought you would have the skills hidden somewhere under a bushel. There were two jobs I took over after he passed, with tears rolling down my cheeks, the ironing (he left owing me brownie points) and mowing the lawn.

[DeppityDawg]

Don't you know how to iron? I find that very hard to believe. My husband did all the ironing (ex army) but mainly to earn brownie points so he could watch interminable footy. Anyway he did it better than me.    

You're easier to wind up than BYTs hoover.



Yes, I can Iron and I can Hoover. And I can sew and most other things around the house. Luckily, Mrs Dawg still prefers to do most of it herself (mainly because I work 45-50 hours a week and she works 16 now). But also because I usually fail to reach her high standards........ *whistles innocently*