Before we start I’m no military expert

Started by cromwell, May 22, 2022, 08:30:38 PM

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Sampanviking

Quote from: Nick on June 01, 2022, 09:22:49 PM
Russia's tanks have had their day now that Ukraine is to be armed with the latest long range guided missiles.
Russia is about to be taken apart from the rear, which will have 2 affects. It will take down the MSR's and hit the moral of the already low Russia army. #gamechanger

Russia is already running scared and threatening that a third country will be drawn into the conflict? There is already 3 countries involved: Belarussiabitch.
Wunderwaffe version 4 - the previous three versions having failed spectacularly to make a difference
The yanks are sending them 4 units, of the Himars launchers which is less than half a battery and with only the standard missile packs not the strategic range ones.
Three months ago they had dozens of comparable systems such as Urgan, but all of these seem to be long since destroyed.

The rest of your post is as delusional as it is frankly, infantile.

johnofgwent

Quote from: Sampanviking on May 25, 2022, 01:43:24 PM
For a very high proportion of the ATGM squads making the attacks, these tend to be suicide missions.

And ?

Most of WW1, significant parts of WW2 RAF operations to say nothing of the D DaybLsndungs were seen as suicide missions.

When my father was called upon to re-weaponise the AVRO Vulcan after the Americans shot us in the arse by removing our nuclear deterrent leaving us to reinvent it alone, the man who transferred to the test squadron having earned his reputation flying spitfires a decade earlier told dad his job as one of "the few" was to react to his father's (meaning my grandfather's) chain low alerts by getting up high and between the sun and the enemy and dive on them and shoot them in the back before they did that to them.

Arthur (the chap in question) lived to a seriously ripe old age. My last conversation with him was in regard to a job I was taking with a company called Computing Devices after Ferranti tanked. CD were building a Ground Recon Tornado simulator and I was being interviewed for a senior design role. After I explained what was required of me he leaned over and reprised what he told my dad about his role as one of "the few"

He then said if ever my job led me to sit in a military aircraft I should think long and hard on his words.

As things panned out someone else got that job, I went freelancing and my career fixing radars and other stuff for the navy began its second Life. But his words came back to me again and again 

Because to the poor sod at the sharp end every mission is a suicide mission ....
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Nick

Russia's tanks have had their day now that Ukraine is to be armed with the latest long range guided missiles.
Russia is about to be taken apart from the rear, which will have 2 affects. It will take down the MSR's and hit the moral of the already low Russia army. #gamechanger

Russia is already running scared and threatening that a third country will be drawn into the conflict? There is already 3 countries involved: Belarussiabitch. 
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Sampanviking

There is little new in any of this and the Tank has always been vulnerable to AP ammunition fired by whatever system.
Yes some Anti Tank Weapons are quite cheap, but these will also be very unsophisticated and very short range.
The ones that can fire and forget from several miles away and need complex systems for targeting and guidance are very much more expensive (and more likely to malfunction, especially when old).

Only a fraction of ATGM attacks are successful, the majority fail and the moment a system is fired, those firing are themselves in danger. All the more so when firing at short range.
I have read that only 1 in three attacks on Tanks result in a shot on target and less than half actually disable or destroy the tank.
For a very high proportion of the ATGM squads making the attacks, these tend to be suicide missions.
Ultimately guided artillery is far more effective and more often then not, ATGMs are being used against fortified infantry positions rather than Armour on the move.

The key to using Tanks on the modern battlefield comes down to Tactics and Combined Forces. Get it right and you have a vital body of very powerful mobile howitzers and bulldozers that can drive an assault. Get it wrong and you get scrap metal.

Nick

Quote from: Streetwalker on May 23, 2022, 05:12:22 AM
Dont know anything about robots but it does appear that tanks are being trashed without much more than hand held rockets so yes I think their day is done .
Air supremacy seems to have been the key in recent conflicts but Im not even sure that is still the case or as important as it once was with long range missles and drones .

One thing I do know though is the world be a happier place if people just shaked hands and went for a pint .
That is down to the penetrative characteristics of the head and not the delivery system. If a shell has a tougher material than the tank or a velocity that the tank can't handle the tank has no chance, especially when the shell detonates on the inside of the tank. This has nothing to do with robots or drones, except for the accuracy of delivery. 
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

patman post

Wasn't the tank's infallibility compromised when the Finns developed the Molotov Cocktail...?
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Good old

Quote from: cromwell on May 22, 2022, 08:30:38 PM
But looking at the war (special operation) in the Ukraine have tanks had their day,are we going to the next robotic stage?

Purely on financial grounds, the end of the age of the tank as we know it has to be thought to have arrived.
Multi million pound tanks are being trashed by weapons measured in thousands of pounds, be it hand held anti tank weapons, or drones.
So far it's just a next technological stage we witness, when these weapons can truly  pick their own targets, we will be at a next robotic stage.

Streetwalker

Dont know anything about robots but it does appear that tanks are being trashed without much more than hand held rockets so yes I think their day is done .
Air supremacy seems to have been the key in recent conflicts but Im not even sure that is still the case or as important as it once was with long range missles and drones . 

One thing I do know though is the world be a happier place if people just shaked hands and went for a pint . 

Nick

Quote from: cromwell on May 22, 2022, 08:30:38 PM
But looking at the war (special operation) in the Ukraine have tanks had their day,are we going to the next robotic stage?
Been and gone. It was proved that when it came to machines recognising targets and destroying them, they are light years behind the human brain. 
They can however be dropped in behind enemy lines and destroy anything they meet, which is useful, but not in the margins where they are just as likely to have a blue in blue scenario. We can't trust the Americans not to kill our men let alone robots. 
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Borchester

Quote from: cromwell on May 22, 2022, 08:30:38 PM
But looking at the war (special operation) in the Ukraine have tanks had their day,are we going to the next robotic stage?

I hope so.

Imagine Russian and Ukrainian tanks slugging it out, just like in a video game and without anyone getting hurt.


:)
Algerie Francais !

cromwell

But looking at the war (special operation) in the Ukraine have tanks had their day,are we going to the next robotic stage?
Energy....secure and affordable,not that hard is it?