Boris and the party photo

[Thomas]

Another tirade of , espousing a little of what is, and bucketfuls of how Thomas, thinks it should be. Plenty of the usual anti Labour rant . No sign of realising this country is in a much worse condition now than it was in 2010.
And absolutely no mention of the twelve years of borrowing through the roof, to end up where we are. All of which ,if a law breaking PM is added to the mix is fine, for him
No suggestion as to who or what could actually replace the the selection of fallible individuals that are the reality of not just life in general but the reality for all that want to enter Westminster or any other Parliament and rule. Critical of all and sundry , but nothing better to offer.

I dont vote tory. In my entire life , i have never voted for them , and never will. However grudgingly , the fact remains much of europe and the western world in general , are facing high inflation , major problems post covid and the effects of global issues .

In the last twelve years of tory rule , at your parliament , they have had to pick up the pieces of a shattered economy labour left in 2010 , out of control PFI debt labour left , wars and general global unrest caused in part by the warmongering of blair and his bosses in washington , scot indy ref , brexit ref , which i stil say today blair fuelled the fire of anti eu sentiment in your nation by his catastrophic mass immigration from eastern europe during his time in power , a once in a century covid pandemic , and now on the brink of nuclear war.

Contrast that to new labours last 13 years in power , where the tories left them an economy on the up , they governed in the sunshine of an economic boom , but still managed to destroy the uk economy and leave vast swathes of unnecessary debt , by thier lax banking industry regualtion.

Your final two sentences is just more of the good old inability to think outside the box as well as being unable to read what is being posted to him. Im a scottish indy supporter. Has that sunk in yet.?

I dont want my politicians in your parliament , and its not my job to dig you out of the shite by making suggestions to save your country. Thats your job.....and your fellow countrymen , to break out of the cycle of voting dumb and dumber and try and achieve a government in power who have the wit to govern and are elected on merit.

You are an old man with out of date political thinking who cant think outside of the two party system. When people like myself come along , or even englishmen like streetwalker , who dont support tory or labour , it sends you potty.

All your well rehearsed arguemtns of labour good tory bad go out the window , as they are useles against people who support neither party.

You , and your party as i always say are a large part of the uk problems. You arent the solution.

Potentially falling into power in a two horse race by offering nothing saying little and doing nothing shows exactly why the uk is in such a mess , and has been on the decline these past 100 years.

You cant teach an old dog new tricks they say , and i fully believe that. So i expect my words to bounce of closed ears. It will be interesteing though to watch the labour muppets , if they do win the next election , dealing with real problems in government instead of sitting on their hands and carping from the sidelines.

The only problem is yet again , i and my family like countless others will be expected to pay for thier incomptence and profligacy , and on and on the cycle will go .

[Borchester]

Another tirade of , espousing a little of what is, and bucketfuls of how Thomas, thinks it should be. Plenty of the usual anti Labour rant . No sign of realising this country is in a much worse condition now than it was in 2010.
And absolutely no mention of the twelve years of borrowing through the roof, to end up where we are. All of which ,if a law breaking PM is added to the mix is fine, for him
No suggestion as to who or what could actually replace the the selection of fallible individuals that are the reality of not just life in general but the reality for all that want to enter Westminster or any other Parliament and rule. Critical of all and sundry , but nothing better to offer.

The Labour party is Tommy's ouch spot, so he should be allowed to throw the occasional strop, particularly with Keir Starmer set to be then next PM. If that happens the Scots will learn to play rugby before the Brothers and Sisters allow Scotland independence.

As to who is going to replace the fallible human beings currently at Westminster, as Good Old meant to say, the last bloke who fitted the bill ended up with a nail in each hand hanging from a cross.

Anyway, I have had a chat with one of my local Councillors re the likelihood of a Labour government applying for readmission to the EU and she replied that was what was called in political circles. pissing in the soup.

The Councillor is a girlie and a politician so she lies automatically, but broken clocks etc.

I reckon the UK should survive a Labour government

[Good old]

He has , and so has keir starmer with durham gate. No one is denying this or failing to recognise this on this forum or off it. The point isnt disagreement over wether he did or didnt break rules , its disagreement over wether he should resign for it when previous prime minisnters like blair did much worse and didnt resign. Among others.

Your only interest , and your ilk , it to hang a tory rather than the free and equal appllication of law and rules to all and sundry past and present.and?.....

So does blair. Whats your point?

rubbish., Blair was a lawyer who clearly knew he was breaking internaitonal law when he joined in invading iraq and telling lies about wmd.

We are told we have to bring putin t court for war crimes in ukraine , and boris must be punished for cake and prosecco , while this murderer walks scot free under every excuse under the sky .so blair posthumously gets a knights garter 14 years after he left office , after telling lies to start a war and murder millions of innocents , while johnson has cake and bisucits during lockdown and we are told must pay a heavy price by the labour luvvies. Just shows all that is wrong with modern "britian".

Might i add , such was the queens intense dislike of tory blair he was the first as i understand it modern prime minister who was refused a peerage after leaving office by the queen , and she had to be badgered into giving him the knghts garter all those years later.  so Gies peace good old. You are warbling as usual.
he has broken the rules. The potentail fine from durham police is a red herring you daft labour sods actually fools the public. Thats the trouble labour and their supproters they treat the public as utter fools. The damage to beer korma is well and truly dne wether the mystery fines appears or not. no the general public want a leader to deal with cost of living and fuel crises , not to worry about beer and cake.

They also have long memories unfortunately for you of labours last disgracefull time in power. God help us if starmer and the blairtes get back in again.

Another tirade of , espousing a little of what is, and bucketfuls of how Thomas, thinks it should be. Plenty of the usual anti Labour rant . No sign of realising this country is in a much worse condition now than it was in 2010.
And absolutely no mention of the twelve years of borrowing through the roof, to end up where we are. All of which ,if a law breaking PM is added to the mix is fine, for him
No suggestion as to who or what could actually replace the the selection of fallible individuals that are the reality of not just life in general but the reality for all that want to enter Westminster or any other Parliament and rule. Critical of all and sundry , but nothing better to offer.

[Thomas]

Yes there are many reasons to hope to god Starmer stays in opposition but a love of Tory ideology isn't one of them.

well said john.

Anyone wanting the see the future of the yookay under starmers labour only have to look at the mess in wales where labour as we all know have been in charge since devolution was started.

In scotland , they have just made another rod for their own backs by doing backroom deals with the tories in 6 of scotlands councils. This matters , because the soft labour voters are now turning against sarwar and starmer for thier betrayal against them , and so hoepfully we can dicsount soft labour voters for supporting them at a general election.

The last labour government walked in and governed in the sunshine of an economic boom that was left to them , and they still facked up the economy  , took us into illegal wars , cost of living started spiralling out of control under them and tried to bring tuition fees in in scotland before getting the boot.

They opposed the ending of right to buy in scotland , i mean the list is fackin endless. I cant stand johnson or his party , but as you hint at above , the idea labour are the answer to the problems of the nations of these islands is laughable , or that we should shut up about tony blairs misdemeanors and join the baying mob to get johnson out for not combing his hair and having buckfast at a party during lockdown.

All the issues we are all having to deal with and this is what labour supporters are consumed with.

[Thomas]

Johnson has very clearly been caught breaking the very rules, and laws he put in place.

He has , and so has keir starmer with durham gate. No one is denying this or failing to recognise this on this forum or off it. The point isnt disagreement over wether he did or didnt break rules , its disagreement over wether he should resign for it when previous prime minisnters like blair did much worse and didnt resign. Among others.

Your only interest , and your ilk , it to hang a tory rather than the free and equal appllication of law and rules to all and sundry past and present.

And Boris, still has his backers, and will do for ever more.

and?.....

So does blair. Whats your point?

Blair, wasn't castrated, but castigated widely for his balls up in Iraq, it was certainly enough to end his career in time. Regardless, whatever Blair, did or didn't do , can not act as a green light for any Future PM to break the law, regardless of party. That's the only judgement that needs making.

rubbish., Blair was a lawyer who clearly knew he was breaking internaitonal law when he joined in invading iraq and telling lies about wmd.

We are told we have to bring putin t court for war crimes in ukraine , and boris must be punished for cake and prosecco , while this murderer walks scot free under every excuse under the sky .

Strange you didn't put the Queen, and our present government as Blair, admirers, as they invest him as a knight of the Garter, shortly.

so blair posthumously gets a knights garter 14 years after he left office , after telling lies to start a war and murder millions of innocents , while johnson has cake and bisucits during lockdown and we are told must pay a heavy price by the labour luvvies. Just shows all that is wrong with modern "britian".

Might i add , such was the queens intense dislike of tory blair he was the first as i understand it modern prime minister who was refused a peerage after leaving office by the queen , and she had to be badgered into giving him the knghts garter all those years later.  so Gies peace good old. You are warbling as usual.

It remains to be seen if Starmer has broken rules.

he has broken the rules. The potentail fine from durham police is a red herring you daft labour sods actually fools the public. Thats the trouble labour and their supproters they treat the public as utter fools. The damage to beer korma is well and truly dne wether the mystery fines appears or not.

If thought by our doubtful police, to be guilty, then Starmer goes. And if the general public can not see the immense difference in that to the actions of their PM ,or for that matter the difference in the actions of the police, then  God help us all.

no the general public want a leader to deal with cost of living and fuel crises , not to worry about beer and cake.

They also have long memories unfortunately for you of labours last disgracefull time in power. God help us if starmer and the blairtes get back in again.

[johnofgwent]

I guess you just want to hold feet to the fire but I support Conservative ideology no matter what in just the same way that I believe you support Scottish independence.

That's interesting.

I suppose it was Labour ideology that screwed our students with student loans, helped by a lib dem leader that swore blind there would be no such thing in a lib dem goverenment, but then voted for them to rise to £9000 a year when the lib Dems were asked to be part of the government.

BUT it was Harold Wilson's LABOUR government who expanded degree level education in a way hardly credible to those who voted him in, first by expanding university campuses and providing free tuition and grants and secondly by launching the open university. The three hundred and fifty thousand this country has collected in tax from me since I got my degree forty three years ago is roughly five times what it got from my brother over the same time period .... He was thrown out of Llanwern Steelworks by Thatcher and hadn't had a decent job since.

Under Tory rule, my aunt told Oxbridge to go F@@@ itself and went very red brick because Oxbridge withheld degree award ceremonies from women hoping it would screw their hopes of a career. In the University of Wales this policy DID work because under the terms and conditions of matriculation you are NOT awarded the degree until you either  PHYSICALLY ATTEND a graduation ceremony OR send CV a written request to be admitted "in absentia" and I know two people from my graduation year who were refused their degree because last minute illness prevented them attending and it was then too late to reverse their choice. One was refused the entry to medical school their degree in biochemistry allowed and shock horror had to take a gap year and work. Admitted the money he made in that year helped him not starve in the next five but that was Tory ideology at its finest. The university of Wales was also rejected by my aunt who studied instead in Bristol.

Labour are a joke when it comes to the NHS but that's because they have no competent businessmen. The last time the Tories had power over it in Wales they destroyed the provision of NHS dental services UK wide and while labour did f**k all to fix that on Blair's watch it wasn't Blair who removed the dentists in the first place.

Yes there are many reasons to hope to god Starmer stays in opposition but a love of Tory ideology isn't one of them.

[Good old]

That is exactly the point. Johnson has done worse than some , less than others , while walking the tight rope. I would say the visceral hatred the man gets from the left in your country is primarliy to do with brexit. Now he has to be removed at all costs as a punishment for enacting what your country wanted , to leave the EU.

Johnson has very clearly been caught breaking the very rules, and laws he put in place. No PM has ever managed that let alone refuse to walk when proven to have done so. Says a lot for Brexit if Johnson is the only one that believes in it enough to keep it alive.

Thats excatly what tony blair done , over iraq and many othe issues. Was tony castrated and thrown from power? No today he is still a hero of your mate starmer and many others in your party , while you throw empty words about regarding his legacy.

Judge all men equally or not at all.

And Boris, still has his backers, and will do for ever more. Blair, wasn't castrated, but castigated widely for his balls up in Iraq, it was certainly enough to end his career in time. Regardless, whatever Blair, did or didn't do , can not act as a green light for any Future PM to break the law, regardless of party. That's the only judgement that needs making.
Strange you didn't put the Queen, and our present government as Blair, admirers, as they invest him as a knight of the Garter, shortly. 

rubbish. Empty words to fob off blair and labours past crimes to concentrat on short term political gain now.

Starmer broke rules as well , we dont even need to wait on some silly durham polis fine or drag up blairs inglorious legacy. You dont want to talk about that though do you good old.

Taking the boris scalp and labour winning at all costs is all that matters to you. For the rest of us , red tory or blue tory , it makes no difference as to which rule breaking muppet sits on the iron throne.
Trust? That rules out keir starmer and labour then doesnt it.

Keir starmer , the man who made promises to get elected as labour leader , then proceeded to break the im told by people like srb on this forum , is now the trustworthy alternative to boris johnson?

You try and talk a good game good old , and fail spectacularly.

It remains to be seen if Starmer has broken rules. The Police said no once. Strange they even need another look but if they can not tell the difference between someone offering a champagne toast to a room full of empty booze bottles with enough left for the event to continue for hours more, and the other eight or nine other events he is thought to have attended, and a few working characters in a political office with people eating a takeaway ,and Kier, swigging a small beer then there really is no hope for the health of our whole system, even beyond Westminster .
If thought by our doubtful police, to be guilty, then Starmer goes. And if the general public can not see the immense difference in that to the actions of their PM ,or for that matter the difference in the actions of the police, then  God help us all.

[Thomas]

What Im interested in cromwell is making them accountable for how they run the country . This sideshow of who did and who didnt have a beer is something that maybe  deserved one day of news headlines and follow up discussion  not 6 months .

saying this i see your lord provost aka mayor saddo khan is taking an other absolute pasting on twitter at the minute. He was on there virtue signalling about the tory cost of living crises and how londoners are struggling to pay thier bills and make ends meet until someone pointed out to him he just put londoners council tax up 8.8% this year despite the majority of the london assembly voting against it.

The labour party in one paragraph. In all its duplicitous glory.

[Thomas]

Instead of bringing politicians up to standard I believe Boris has rewritten them so that a politician found guilty of a misdemeanor can either be fined or made to apologise.

I wonder when anyone will feel that standards have hit rock bottom?

Standards have always been at rock bottom.

You have a parliament thats sits on the mantra of doing as it pleases , cannot be bound by any past rule it doesnt like ,and operates for its own interests , and always has , now you tell us "standards" have hit rock bottom?

Have you forgotten the behaviour of many in that very parliament a short time ago , including keir starmer ,the noble tursthworthy leader of the labour party , in refusing to implement democracy because they knew best?

Sorry toots you seem to be looking at a past of high standards and political demi gods that never existed through rose tinted glasses that blind you.

The history books are full of vice corruption and degeneracy at that parliament of westmisnter. Its historic reputation is foul , so much so as i mentioned previously modern statesmen like de gaulle famouly quipped on its untrustworthyness. Wether he was qualified to remark isnt the point , westminsters inglorious reputation is ancient and corrupt.

Lord conrwallis said over two hundred years ago his occupation dealing with various politicians , was of the most unpleasant nature , bargaining and jobbing with the most corrupt people under heaven , and he despised and hated himself every hour for engaging in such dirty work.

These were the anglo irish politicians who were later admitted to the westmisnter commons as mps. That was two hundred years ago he uttered those words.

Standards havent fallen  to rock bottom, its more the fact they havent risen  off rock bottom in that time.

[Thomas]

I agree with you, but as they were all mere mortals , and not saints , I accept they will walk a tight rope. But that is not the point.

That is exactly the point. Johnson has done worse than some , less than others , while walking the tight rope. I would say the visceral hatred the man gets from the left in your country is primarliy to do with brexit. Now he has to be removed at all costs as a punishment for enacting what your country wanted , to leave the EU.

The point being that because we know their fallibilities , there are rules and even some law they must adhere to, for the sake of the perception of good and just governance. It's a basic requirement of any government to not abuse its population by acting outside of the very laws and rules, it , it's self set, and Boris has and is doing just that.

Thats excatly what tony blair done , over iraq and many othe issues. Was tony castrated and thrown from power? No today he is still a hero of your mate starmer and many others in your party , while you throw empty words about regarding his legacy.

Judge all men equally or not at all.

If abuse has ever happened in the past, that is only a reason to oppose it now, because every time it is ignored it becomes a normality.

rubbish. Empty words to fob off blair and labours past crimes to concentrat on short term political gain now.

Starmer broke rules as well , we dont even need to wait on some silly durham polis fine or drag up blairs inglorious legacy. You dont want to talk about that though do you good old.

Taking the boris scalp and labour winning at all costs is all that matters to you. For the rest of us , red tory or blue tory , it makes no difference as to which rule breaking muppet sits on the iron throne.

If only we could turn to these wonder people waiting to be an alternative to  the reliance on trust, and the acknowledgment  of when trust is broken and proven as such

Trust? That rules out keir starmer and labour then doesnt it.

Keir starmer , the man who made promises to get elected as labour leader , then proceeded to break the im told by people like srb on this forum , is now the trustworthy alternative to boris johnson?

You try and talk a good game good old , and fail spectacularly.

[Thomas]

I guess you just want to hold feet to the fire but I support Conservative ideology no matter what in just the same way that I believe you support Scottish independence..

Sorry dont understand your point?

I welcome your conservative ideology on this forum and the chance to debate those in differing countires with differing political views. Thats why we are here isnt it?

May was a decent woman but lacked the instincts and backbone to get Brexit done. She remains a decent woman as far as I am concerned.

Couldnt disagree with you anymore .

Theresa may was anything but a decent woman by every report i have read or heard about her. She was a cold unfriendly aloof individual who threw work collegues under a bus and blamed others for her historic mistakes , both as pm and in her time at the home office. Her inglorious  reputation preceeded her prior to her coronation as tory leader.

She was nothing more than a filthy little compromise and short term stop gap by the warring factions in the tory party who as ever , like labour  , put their internal party politics before your country and mine. The end result was so very predictable.

This though is all besides the point. People dont care about decency. We dont elect leaders  and never have because they are decent. People want results , and competence , and theresa may could provide neither.

Margaret thatcher was anything other than "decent". She was though a heroine in your party and of course your country for her achievements. Same as churchill. By all reports a nasty horrible man , a product of his time we are told. He was competent , and got the job done , and is once again regarded as something of a hero in your nation.

The opposite to this was jeremy corbyn. By all reports  , supposed to be a "decent " man. Completely hopeless as a politician and leader , hence a predictable failure. I believe theresa may was neither decent nor honourable , and by all accounts she still remains the worst prime minsinter in modern uk history by a large margin.

I didn't want Boris as PM but he was a better bet than Hunt who was more likely to bow to the EU. I had hoped that Boris had enough mettle to get Brexit done and if we hadn't been waylaid by Covid and now Ukraine we might have a better result.

You didnt want boris suggesting you didnt like what you saw and his reputation , which proves my point. Boris reputation preceeded him into the job of prime minisnter. Everyone of us new what we were getting when he was put into place. So why the surprise? A liar , a buffoon , no honour and his one job was to get brexit done which he did , for three countires anyway.

So what im not understanding is why all the faux outrage when he reverts to type? Leopards and spots? am i missing something?

I didn't want anything to do with the EEC way back when either but certainly I hated what it became and voted to leave as soon as I was allowed.

sure we can hold differing opinions but still respect points of view.

If I could haul Blair to a courtroom I certainly would so I don't understand why you would expect me to be able to change anything just so you could decide that I have a point. I am still looking for your points.

so what are you saying, we should just move on , forget blair as he will never face the  music for his war crimes and the deaths of three million plus , but meanwhile we have to oust johnson over a piece of cake during some silly lockdown?

Dont agree. Morals and principles have to be equal and consistent , otherwise  no one respects them.

The only thing I get is that you are obsessively pro independence, regardless of what that might mean to Scotland long term but I guess you are as blinkered as you seem to think the English are with Brexit. Your determination to belittle us at every opportunity is now really getting boring

The english that i have come across in my life are by far kind decent people , with a lovely country who deserve far better than the clowns at westminster who rule them. That being said , when you come on forums like this and others , you come across the armpits of both english and every other nations society.

I learned a long long time ago on this forum and others its the law of the jungle , metaphorically spekaing , kill or be killed. I have been called every name under the sun , myself and my nation ridiculed and demeaned , from direct ad hominem to subtle racism and prejudice , so with respcet toots im not taking lectures on anyone belittling the english on forums such as this.

Telling the truth , however direct and brutal , isnt something  i will shy from.

It makes no difference to how things are and if you hope to get a rise well forget it. 

Other than that your posts are usually quite informative and intelligent, just ease up on the insults and I will be happier.

your country shot itself in both feet , elected string of clowns into government , continue to affront themselves in the eyes of the world and when this is pointed out , we are simply trying to get a rise out of you?

[Borchester]

.

Borchester for the last three years has joked his way across this forum about johnsons lies and duplicity , and now all of a sudden , has joined the throng and the baying mob.

Not exactly baying. It is just that the old Boris bullshit does not appear to be working, so time to chuck the rascal out and put another rascal in. It is the right thing to do, sod it.

I don't know when the Golden Age of Sea Green Incorruptibles was, but I reckon that it was before even my time. 

[Good old]

Is the Labour party still a Labour party? What happened to honour among politicians? Perhaps there never was any. Sadly the media is trying to take over the country and the electorate is too often simply thoughtless lemmings. That's something that the pundits rely on. Digital hysteria is so easily achieved today.

Those are fair questions, there is and has been much doubt contained in any answer to them. As for the media, yes they appear at times to have ambitions beyond their actual remit. But quiet honestly when confronted with the likes of partygate, thank god for a free press. As it's obvious we were not supposed to know of it. Lemmings , not for Brexit apparently.

[T00ts]

If only this was just your problem Toots. It's not it's a problem for everyone that gives a dam for the furtherance of our democracy.
In the first place, is this really the Conservative party any more? Or just a bunch of populists that stole the label.
What happened to the honourable Tory gent, or Lady? What happened to the unswerving support for rules, and law, and even order? What happened to honouring our unwritten system in place of a written constitution.?
I will leave it there, I dare say we could get into monetary policy, but I stop now because I think there must be more than a few Tories chewing on that right now.

Is the Labour party still a Labour party? What happened to honour among politicians? Perhaps there never was any. Sadly the media is trying to take over the country and the electorate is too often simply thoughtless lemmings. That's something that the pundits rely on. Digital hysteria is so easily achieved today.

[Good old]

I want Conservative principles in government the alternative for me is to not vote. Too many women worked incredibly hard and suffered for me to have a vote, for me to give that up lightly. The prospect of a Labour win is something that I would dread. We have a rubbish leader in many ways at present but my trust is in the back benchers who still have scruples. My hope is that they find their courage.

If only this was just your problem Toots. It's not it's a problem for everyone that gives a dam for the furtherance of our democracy.
In the first place, is this really the Conservative party any more? Or just a bunch of populists that stole the label.?
What happened to the honourable Tory gent, or Lady? What happened to the unswerving support for rules, and law, and even order? What happened to honouring our unwritten system in place of a written constitution.?
I will leave it there, I dare say we could get into monetary policy, but I stop now because I think there must be more than a few Tories chewing on that right now.